WEBVTT

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The defining fact of the United

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States is freedom of speech.

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To the extent this country is

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actually exceptional, it's because

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we have the First Amendment to the

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Bill of rights. We have freedom

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of conscience. We can say what we

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really think.

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There's no hate speech exception

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to that. Just because you hate what

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somebody else thinks, you cannot

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force that person to be quiet

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because we're citizens, not

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slaves.

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But that right, that foundational

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right that makes this country what

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it is, that right from which all

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other rights flow is going

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away at high speed

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in the face of censorship.

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Now, modern censorship bears no

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resemblance to previous censorship

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regimes in previous countries in

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previous eras.

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Our censorship is affected

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on the basis of fights against

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disinformation and malinformation.

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And the key thing to know about

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these is they're everywhere.

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And of course, they have

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no reference at all to whether

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what you're saying is true or not.

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In other words, you can say

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something that is factually accurate

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and consistent with your own

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conscience, and in

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previous versions of America, what

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an absolute right to say those

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things.

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But because someone doesn't like

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them, or because they're

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inconvenient to whatever plan

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the people in power have, they can

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be denounced as disinformation,

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and you could be stripped of your

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right to express them, either in

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person or online.

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In fact, expressing these things can

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become a criminal act and is.

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And it's important to know, by the

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way, that this is not just the

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private sector doing this.

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These efforts are being directed by

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the US government, which you pay for

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and at least theoretically own.

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It's your government, but

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they're stripping your rights at

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very high speed.

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Most people understand this

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intuitively, but they don't

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know how it happens.

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How does censorship happen?

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What are the mechanics of it?

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Mike Benz is, we can say with some

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confidence, the expert

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in the world on how this

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happens. Mike Benz had the

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cyber portfolio at the State

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Department. He's now executive

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director of Foundation for Freedom

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Online, and we're going to have a

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conversation with him about a very

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specific kind of censorship,

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by the way, we can't recommend

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strongly enough if you want to know

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how this happens Mike

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Benz BENZ

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is the man to read.

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But today we just want to talk about

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a specific kind of censorship and

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that censorship that emanates from

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the fabled military industrial

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complex, from our defense

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industry, and the foreign policy

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establishment in Washington.

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That's significant now because we're

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on the cusp of a global war.

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And so you can expect censorship to

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increase dramatically.

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And so with that, here is Mike Benz,

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executive director of Foundation for

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Freedom Online. Mike, thanks so much

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for joining us.

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And I just can't overstate your

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audience how exhaustive

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and comprehensive your knowledge is

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on this topic.

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It's almost it's almost

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unbelievable.

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And so if you could just walk us

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through how

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the foreign policy establishment

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and defense contractors and

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DoD and just the whole

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cluster, the constellation of

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defense related, publicly funded

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institutions strip from

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us our freedom of speech?

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Sure. You know, one of the easiest

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ways to actually start

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the story is really with the story

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of internet freedom and

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its switch from internet freedom to

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internet censorship, because free

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speech on the internet was an

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instrument of statecraft almost

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from the outset of the privatization

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of the internet in 1991.

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We quickly discovered, through

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the efforts of the

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Defense Department, the State

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Department in our intelligence

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services, that people were using

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the internet to congregate on blogs

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and forums, and free

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speech was championed

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more than anybody by the Pentagon,

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the State Department, and our

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sort of CIA cut out

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NGO blob architecture

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as a way to support dissident

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groups around the world in

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order to help them overthrow

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authoritarian governments, as they

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were sort of billed. Essentially the,
internet

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free speech allowed kind of

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instant regime change operations,

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to be able to facilitate

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the foreign policy establishment's

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State Department agenda.

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Google is a great example of this.

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Google began as a DARPA

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grant, by

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Larry Page and Sergey Brin when they

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were Stanford PhDs.

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And they got

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their funding as part of a joint

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CIA, NSA program

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to chart how, quote, birds of a

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feather flock together online

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through search engine aggregation.

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And then one year later, they

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launched Google and then became

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a military contractor quickly

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thereafter. They got Google Maps by

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purchasing a CIA satellite software,

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essentially, and the

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ability to track to

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use free speech on the internet

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as a way to circumvent

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state control over media,

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over in places like Central

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Asia, or all around the

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world, was seen as a way

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to be able to do

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what used to be done out of CIA

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station houses or out of embassies

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or consulates in a way that

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was totally turbocharged.

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And all of the internet free speech

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technology was initially created

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by our national security state.

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VPNs, virtual private networks

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to hide your IP address.

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Tour the dark web, to be able to buy

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and sell goods anonymously

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and to end encrypted chats.

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All these things were created

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initially as DARPA projects

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or as joint CIA NSA projects,

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to be able to help intelligence

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backed groups to

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overthrow governments that were

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causing a problem, to

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the Clinton administration or the

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Bush administration or the Obama

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administration.

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And this plan worked magically

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from about 1991 until

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about 2014,

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when there began to be an about

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face on internet freedom

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and its utility.

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Now, the high watermark of the sort

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of internet free speech moment was

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the Arab Spring in 2011,

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2012, when you had this

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one by one.

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All of the adversary governments

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of the Obama administration, Egypt,

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Tunisia, all began to be toppled

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in Facebook revolutions and Twitter

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revolutions.

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And you had the State Department

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working very closely with the social

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media companies to be able to

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keep social media online during

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those periods. There was a famous

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phone call from Google's Jared Cohen

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to Twitter to not

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do their scheduled maintenance so

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that, the

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preferred opposition group in Iran

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would be able to use Twitter, to

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win that election.

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So it was, free speech was an

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instrument of statecraft from the

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national security state to begin

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with. All of that architecture, all

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the NGOs, the relationships between

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the tech companies and the national

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security state had been long

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established for freedom.

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In 2014, after

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the coup in Ukraine,

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there was an unexpected counter

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coup where Crimea and the

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Donbas broke away and

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they broke away with essentially a

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military backstop that NATO was

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highly unprepared for at the time.

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They had one last Hail Mary

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chance, which was the Crimea

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annexation vote on,

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in 2014.

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And when the hearts and minds of the

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people of Crimea voted,

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to join the Russian Federation,

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that was the last straw for

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the concept of free speech on the

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internet in the eyes of NATO as

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they saw it, the fundamental nature

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of war changed at that moment.

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And NATO at that point

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declared something that they first

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called the Gerasimov doctrine, which

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is named after this Russian

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military, a general,

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who they claimed made a speech that

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the fundamental nature of war has

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changed. You don't need to win

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military skirmishes to take over

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Central and Eastern Europe.

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All you need to do is control the

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media and the social media

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ecosystem, because that's what

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controls elections.

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And if you simply get the right

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administration into power, they

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control the military.

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So it's infinitely cheaper than

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conducting a military war to simply

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conduct an organized political,

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influence operation over social

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media.

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And legacy media and industry

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had been created that spanned the

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Pentagon, the the British

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Ministry of Defense in Brussels

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into a organized

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political warfare outfit,

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essentially infrastructure that was

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created, initially stationed

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in Germany and in Central and

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Eastern Europe to create

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psychological buffer zones,

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basically to create the ability to

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to have the military work with

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the social media companies, to

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censor Russian propaganda,

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or to censor domestic

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right wing populist groups

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in Europe who were rising in

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political power at the time because

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of the migrant crisis.

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So you had the systematic targeting

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by our State Department, by our ISI,

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by the Pentagon, of groups

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like Germany's AfD, the

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alternative for Deutschland there,

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and for groups in Estonia, Latvia,

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Lithuania.

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Now, when Brexit happened in

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2016, it was

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that was that was this crisis moment

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where suddenly they

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didn't have to worry just about

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Central and Eastern Europe anymore.

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It was coming westward, this idea of

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Russian control over hearts and

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minds.

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And so that was

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Brexit was June 2016.

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The very next month at the Warsaw

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Conference, NATO formally

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amended its charter

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to expressly commit

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to hybrid warfare as

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there as this new NATO capacity.

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So they went from, you know,

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basically 70 years

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of tanks to this explicit

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capacity building for

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censoring tweets if they were deemed

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to be Russian proxies.

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And again, it's not just Russian

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propaganda.

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This was these were now Brexit

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groups or groups like Matteo

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Salvini in Italy,

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or in Greece or in Germany

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or in Spain with the Vox party.

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And now at the time, NATO was

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publishing white papers saying

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that the biggest threat NATO faces

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is not actually a military invasion

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from Russia.

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It's losing domestic elections

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across Europe in

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two. All these right wing populist

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groups who, because they were mostly

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working class movements, were

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campaigning on cheap Russian

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energy at a time when the U.S.

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was pressuring this energy

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diversification policy.

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And so they made the argument

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after Brexit.

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Now the entire rules based

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international order would collapse

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unless the military took control

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over media, because Brexit would

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give rise to "Frexit" in France,

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with Marine Le Pen to "Spexit" in in

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Spain with a Vox party to "Italexit"

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in Italy, to "Grexit"

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in Germany, to "Grexit" in Greece,

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the EU would come apart, so NATO

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would be killed without a single

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bullet being, being

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fired.

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And then not only that, now that

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NATO is gone, now there's no

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enforcement arm for the

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International Monetary Fund, the IMF

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or the world Bank.

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So now the financial stakeholders

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who depend on the battering ram of

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the national security state would

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basically be helpless against

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governments around the world.

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So from their perspective,

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if the military did not begin to

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censor the internet, every

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all of the democratic institutions

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and infrastructure that gave rise to

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the. World after World War Two would

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collapse. So you can imagine that

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we.

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May I ask.

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Later. Donald Trump won the 2016

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election.

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So you well, you just told a

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remarkable story that I've never

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heard anybody explain as

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lucidly and crisply as you just did.

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But did anyone at NATO or anyone

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at the State Department pause

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room and say, wait a second, we've

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just identified our new enemy

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as democracy within our own

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countries. I think that's what

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you're saying. They feared

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that the people, the citizens of

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their own countries would get their

11:21.600 --> 11:23.549
way, and they went to war

11:23.550 --> 11:24.389
against that.

11:24.390 --> 11:25.199
Yes.

11:25.200 --> 11:26.669
Now, you know, there's a rich

11:26.670 --> 11:28.229
history of this dating back to the

11:28.230 --> 11:29.729
Cold War. You know, the Cold War in

11:29.730 --> 11:31.949
Europe was essentially a

11:31.950 --> 11:33.779
similar, a similar struggle

11:33.780 --> 11:35.279
for hearts and minds of people,

11:35.280 --> 11:36.629
especially in Central and Eastern

11:36.630 --> 11:37.739
Europe.

11:37.740 --> 11:39.269
You know, in these sort of, you

11:39.270 --> 11:40.829
know, Soviet buffer zones.

11:40.830 --> 11:42.659
And, you know, starting in

11:42.660 --> 11:44.549
1948, the national security

11:44.550 --> 11:45.889
state was really established.

11:45.890 --> 11:48.059
Then, you know, you had the 1947

11:48.060 --> 11:49.349
act, which established the Central

11:49.350 --> 11:50.789
Intelligence Agency.

11:50.790 --> 11:52.619
You had, you know,

11:52.620 --> 11:54.449
this new world order that had been

11:54.450 --> 11:55.889
created with all these international

11:55.890 --> 11:57.059
institutions.

11:57.060 --> 11:58.919
And you had the 1948

11:58.920 --> 12:00.419
U.N. Declaration on Human Rights,

12:00.420 --> 12:02.129
which forbid the territorial

12:02.130 --> 12:04.619
acquisition by military force.

12:04.620 --> 12:06.179
So you can no longer run a

12:06.180 --> 12:08.039
traditional military

12:08.040 --> 12:09.989
occupation government

12:09.990 --> 12:11.699
in the way that we could.

12:11.700 --> 12:13.589
In 1898, for example, when we took

12:13.590 --> 12:15.419
the Philippines, everything had

12:15.420 --> 12:16.919
to be done through a sort of

12:16.920 --> 12:19.289
political legitimization process,

12:19.290 --> 12:21.029
whereby there's some ratification

12:21.030 --> 12:22.799
from the hearts and minds of people

12:22.800 --> 12:24.719
within the country.

12:24.720 --> 12:26.549
Now, often that involves simply

12:26.550 --> 12:28.559
puppet politicians who are groomed

12:28.560 --> 12:29.939
as emerging leaders by our State

12:29.940 --> 12:31.529
Department. But the battle for

12:31.530 --> 12:33.419
hearts and minds had been something

12:33.420 --> 12:35.279
that we had been

12:35.280 --> 12:37.739
giving ourselves a long moral

12:37.740 --> 12:40.049
license. Leash, if you will.

12:40.050 --> 12:42.269
Since 1948, one of the godfathers

12:42.270 --> 12:44.459
of the CIA, George Kennan, at,

12:44.460 --> 12:46.349
12 days after we rigged the Italian

12:46.350 --> 12:48.329
election in 1948 by

12:48.330 --> 12:50.189
stuffing ballot boxes and working

12:50.190 --> 12:52.379
with the mob, we published a memo

12:52.380 --> 12:53.999
called The Inauguration of Organized

12:54.000 --> 12:55.769
Political Warfare, where he said,

12:55.770 --> 12:57.869
listen, it's a mean old world

12:57.870 --> 12:59.849
out there. We at the CIA just rigged

12:59.850 --> 13:00.749
the Italian election.

13:00.750 --> 13:02.129
We had to do it because if the

13:02.130 --> 13:03.629
communists won, maybe there'll never

13:03.630 --> 13:05.249
be another election in Italy again.

13:05.250 --> 13:06.239
So.

13:06.240 --> 13:08.579
But it's really effective, guys,

13:08.580 --> 13:10.499
we need a department of dirty tricks

13:10.500 --> 13:11.639
to be able to do this around the

13:11.640 --> 13:13.559
world. And it's essentially a new

13:13.560 --> 13:15.869
social contract we're constructing

13:15.870 --> 13:16.829
with the American people.

13:16.830 --> 13:18.119
Because this is not the way we've

13:18.120 --> 13:20.069
conducted diplomacy before, but we

13:20.070 --> 13:21.599
are now forbidden from using the War

13:21.600 --> 13:23.249
Department. In 1948, they also

13:23.250 --> 13:24.449
renamed the War Department to the

13:24.450 --> 13:25.559
Defense Department.

13:25.560 --> 13:27.179
So, again, as part of this, this

13:27.180 --> 13:29.579
diplomatic onslaught for political

13:29.580 --> 13:31.589
control, rather than looking like

13:31.590 --> 13:33.389
it's overt military control, but

13:33.390 --> 13:34.799
essentially what ends up happening

13:34.800 --> 13:36.749
there is we created this

13:36.750 --> 13:38.309
foreign domestic firewall.

13:38.310 --> 13:40.169
We said that we have a department of

13:40.170 --> 13:41.219
dirty tricks to be able to rig

13:41.220 --> 13:42.599
elections, to be able to control

13:42.600 --> 13:44.969
media, to be able to

13:44.970 --> 13:46.559
meddle in the internal affairs of

13:46.560 --> 13:48.389
every other plant of dirt in

13:48.390 --> 13:50.339
the country. But this sort of sacred

13:50.340 --> 13:52.199
dirt on which the American homeland

13:52.200 --> 13:54.029
sits will,

13:54.030 --> 13:55.979
they are not allowed to operate

13:55.980 --> 13:57.299
there. The State Department, the

13:57.300 --> 13:58.919
Defense Department and the CIA are

13:58.920 --> 14:00.749
all expressly forbidden from

14:00.750 --> 14:01.989
operating on US soil.

14:01.990 --> 14:03.749
Of course, this is so far from the

14:03.750 --> 14:05.099
case, it's not even funny.

14:05.100 --> 14:07.079
But, but that's because of a number

14:07.080 --> 14:08.189
of laundering tricks that they've

14:08.190 --> 14:09.809
developed over 70 years of doing

14:09.810 --> 14:11.759
this. But essentially, there was

14:11.760 --> 14:14.129
no moral quandary at first

14:14.130 --> 14:16.139
with respect to the creation

14:16.140 --> 14:17.969
of the censorship industry when

14:17.970 --> 14:19.798
it started out in Germany and

14:20.850 --> 14:23.129
in Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia

14:23.130 --> 14:25.259
and in Sweden and Finland,

14:25.260 --> 14:27.659
there began to be a more

14:27.660 --> 14:29.579
diplomatic debate about it after

14:29.580 --> 14:30.539
Brexit.

14:30.540 --> 14:32.519
And then, it was

14:32.520 --> 14:34.219
it became.

14:34.220 --> 14:36.199
Full throttle when Trump was elected

14:36.200 --> 14:38.359
and what little resistance there

14:38.360 --> 14:39.199
was.

14:39.200 --> 14:41.569
Was washed over by the rise

14:41.570 --> 14:43.639
and saturation of Russiagate,

14:43.640 --> 14:45.439
which basically allowed them to not

14:45.440 --> 14:47.299
have to deal with the moral

14:47.300 --> 14:49.519
ambiguities of censoring

14:49.520 --> 14:50.749
your own people.

14:50.750 --> 14:52.399
Because if Trump was a Russian

14:52.400 --> 14:54.079
asset, you no longer really had a

14:54.080 --> 14:55.429
traditional free speech issue.

14:55.430 --> 14:57.109
It was a national security issue.

14:57.110 --> 14:59.299
It was only after Russiagate died

14:59.300 --> 15:01.399
in July 2019,

15:01.400 --> 15:03.439
when Robert Mueller basically choked

15:03.440 --> 15:05.179
on the stand for three hours and

15:05.180 --> 15:06.799
revealed he had absolutely nothing.

15:06.800 --> 15:08.119
After two and a half years of

15:08.120 --> 15:10.129
investigation that the foreign

15:10.130 --> 15:12.229
to domestic switcheroo took place,

15:12.230 --> 15:13.729
where they took all of this

15:13.730 --> 15:16.069
censorship architecture spanning

15:16.070 --> 15:18.049
DHS, the FBI,

15:18.050 --> 15:20.179
the CIA, the DOD,

15:20.180 --> 15:22.489
the DOJ, and then the thousands

15:22.490 --> 15:24.709
of government funded NGO

15:24.710 --> 15:26.749
and private sector mercenary firms

15:26.750 --> 15:29.149
were all basically transmitted

15:29.150 --> 15:30.979
from a foreign folk, from a foreign

15:30.980 --> 15:32.809
predicate, a Russian disinformation

15:32.810 --> 15:34.639
predicate to a democracy

15:34.640 --> 15:36.109
predicate, by saying that

15:36.110 --> 15:37.999
disinformation is not just a threat

15:38.000 --> 15:39.409
when it comes from the Russians,

15:39.410 --> 15:40.849
it's actually an intrinsic threat to

15:40.850 --> 15:42.259
democracy itself.

15:42.260 --> 15:43.909
And so by that, they were able to

15:43.910 --> 15:45.709
launder the entire democracy

15:45.710 --> 15:48.529
promotion regime change toolkit,

15:48.530 --> 15:50.809
just in time for the 2020 election.

15:50.810 --> 15:52.969
It I mean, it's almost

15:52.970 --> 15:54.439
beyond belief this has happened.

15:54.440 --> 15:56.059
I mean, my own father worked for the

15:56.060 --> 15:57.769
U.S. government in this business in

15:57.770 --> 15:58.999
the information war against the

15:59.000 --> 15:59.899
Soviet Union.

15:59.900 --> 16:01.759
And, you know, was a big

16:01.760 --> 16:03.739
part of that. And the idea that

16:03.740 --> 16:05.809
any of those tools

16:05.810 --> 16:07.152
would be turned against

16:08.380 --> 16:10.299
American citizens by

16:10.300 --> 16:12.429
the U.S. government was, I think

16:12.430 --> 16:14.019
I want to think was absolutely

16:14.020 --> 16:16.709
unthinkable and say, 1988.

16:16.710 --> 16:18.569
And you're saying that it's there

16:18.570 --> 16:20.159
really hasn't been anyone who's

16:20.160 --> 16:21.059
raised objections.

16:21.060 --> 16:22.409
And it's just it's absolutely turned

16:22.410 --> 16:24.179
inward to manipulate and rig our own

16:24.180 --> 16:25.349
elections, as we would in say,

16:25.350 --> 16:25.859
Latvia.

16:25.860 --> 16:27.959
Yeah. Well, as soon as the democracy

16:27.960 --> 16:29.789
predicate was established, you

16:29.790 --> 16:31.739
had this professional class of

16:31.740 --> 16:33.749
professional regime change artists

16:33.750 --> 16:34.829
and operatives.

16:34.830 --> 16:36.809
That is the same people who argued

16:36.810 --> 16:37.919
that, you know, we need to bring

16:37.920 --> 16:39.719
democracy to Yugoslavia.

16:39.720 --> 16:40.799
You. And that's the predicate for

16:40.800 --> 16:42.719
getting rid of, you know, Milosevic

16:42.720 --> 16:44.549
or any other country around

16:44.550 --> 16:46.289
the world where we basically

16:46.290 --> 16:47.909
overthrow governments in order to

16:47.910 --> 16:49.229
preserve democracy.

16:49.230 --> 16:51.689
Well, if the democracy

16:51.690 --> 16:53.789
threat is homegrown now, then

16:53.790 --> 16:55.619
that becomes, you know, then

16:55.620 --> 16:57.509
suddenly these people

16:57.510 --> 16:59.849
all have new jobs moving

16:59.850 --> 17:01.289
on the US side, and they can go

17:01.290 --> 17:02.549
through a million examples of that.

17:02.550 --> 17:04.499
But one thing on what

17:04.500 --> 17:06.989
you just mentioned, which is that,

17:06.990 --> 17:07.990
you know from

17:09.270 --> 17:11.159
their perspective, they just

17:11.160 --> 17:12.809
weren't ready for the internet.

17:12.810 --> 17:14.729
2016 was really the

17:14.730 --> 17:17.039
first time that social

17:17.040 --> 17:19.439
media had reached such maturity

17:19.440 --> 17:21.689
that it began to eclipse legacy

17:21.690 --> 17:23.338
media. I mean, this was a long time

17:23.339 --> 17:25.348
coming. I think folks saw this

17:25.349 --> 17:27.629
building from 2006

17:27.630 --> 17:29.039
through 2016.

17:29.040 --> 17:30.959
You know, internet 1.0 didn't even

17:30.960 --> 17:31.889
have social media.

17:31.890 --> 17:33.709
From 1991 to

17:33.710 --> 17:35.699
2004, there was no social media

17:35.700 --> 17:37.979
at all. 2004 Facebook came out

17:37.980 --> 17:40.079
2005, Twitter, 2006

17:40.080 --> 17:42.299
YouTube, 2007 the smartphone

17:42.300 --> 17:43.259
and so.

17:43.260 --> 17:45.029
And in that initial period of social

17:45.030 --> 17:46.859
media, nobody was getting

17:46.860 --> 17:48.719
subscriber shifts at the level

17:48.720 --> 17:50.939
where they actually competed with

17:50.940 --> 17:52.739
legacy news media.

17:52.740 --> 17:54.869
But over the course of being,

17:54.870 --> 17:56.489
you know, so initially, even these

17:56.490 --> 17:59.339
dissident voices within the US,

17:59.340 --> 18:01.049
even though they, they may have been

18:01.050 --> 18:03.179
loud, in moments, they

18:03.180 --> 18:05.099
never reached 30

18:05.100 --> 18:06.959
million followers, they never

18:06.960 --> 18:08.859
reached, you know, a

18:08.860 --> 18:10.499
billion impressions a year type

18:10.500 --> 18:12.749
thing as a uncensored,

18:12.750 --> 18:14.819
mature ecosystem

18:14.820 --> 18:16.709
allowed citizen journalists and

18:16.710 --> 18:18.839
independent voices to be able to

18:18.840 --> 18:20.849
outcompete legacy news

18:20.850 --> 18:21.719
media.

18:21.720 --> 18:24.119
This induced a massive crisis

18:24.120 --> 18:25.829
both in our military and in our

18:25.830 --> 18:27.209
State Department and intelligence

18:27.210 --> 18:28.469
services. And I give you a great

18:28.470 --> 18:29.579
example of this.

18:29.580 --> 18:31.859
In 2019, at a

18:31.860 --> 18:33.749
meeting of the German Marshall

18:33.750 --> 18:35.009
Fund, which is, you know, an

18:35.010 --> 18:36.959
institution that goes back to

18:36.960 --> 18:39.330
the US, basically,

18:40.590 --> 18:41.909
and I'm don't want to say bribe, but

18:41.910 --> 18:43.319
the essentially the soft power

18:43.320 --> 18:45.329
economic soft power projection in

18:45.330 --> 18:47.459
Europe as part of the reconstruction

18:47.460 --> 18:49.169
of European governments after World

18:49.170 --> 18:51.059
War 2, to be able to essentially

18:51.060 --> 18:53.159
pay them, with Marshall

18:53.160 --> 18:53.969
Fund dollars.

18:53.970 --> 18:56.099
And then in return, they basically

18:56.100 --> 18:57.749
were under our thumb in terms of how

18:57.750 --> 18:59.699
they reconstructed.

18:59.700 --> 19:01.589
But the German Marshall Fund held

19:01.590 --> 19:02.789
the meeting in 2019.

19:02.790 --> 19:04.019
They held a million of these,

19:04.020 --> 19:05.344
frankly, but where they, where

19:06.480 --> 19:08.639
a four star general,

19:08.640 --> 19:10.529
got up on the panel and

19:10.530 --> 19:12.239
said that that

19:13.380 --> 19:15.449
the what happens, he posed

19:15.450 --> 19:17.669
the question, what happens

19:17.670 --> 19:19.979
to the to the US military?

19:19.980 --> 19:20.969
What happens to the national

19:20.970 --> 19:22.709
security state when the New York

19:22.710 --> 19:24.839
Times is reduced to a medium sized

19:24.840 --> 19:26.339
Facebook page?

19:26.340 --> 19:28.499
And he posed this thought experiment

19:28.500 --> 19:29.740
as an example of

19:30.990 --> 19:33.029
we've had these gatekeepers,

19:33.030 --> 19:34.889
we've had these bumper cars on

19:34.890 --> 19:36.749
democracy in the form

19:36.750 --> 19:38.789
of a

19:38.790 --> 19:40.679
century old relationship

19:40.680 --> 19:42.359
with legacy media institutions.

19:42.360 --> 19:44.219
I mean, our mainstream media

19:44.220 --> 19:46.199
is not in any shape or form,

19:46.200 --> 19:48.179
even from its outset, independent

19:48.180 --> 19:49.619
from the national security state,

19:49.620 --> 19:50.909
from the State Department, from the

19:50.910 --> 19:52.199
War Department.

19:52.200 --> 19:54.209
You know, you had the initial,

19:54.210 --> 19:56.669
all of the initial, broadcast

19:56.670 --> 19:58.679
news companies NBC, ABC and

19:58.680 --> 20:00.659
CBS were all created

20:00.660 --> 20:01.979
by Office of War Information

20:01.980 --> 20:03.509
veterans from the from the War

20:03.510 --> 20:04.829
Department's effort in World War II.

20:04.830 --> 20:06.689
You had these

20:06.690 --> 20:08.459
operation mockingbird relationships

20:08.460 --> 20:10.769
from the 1950s through the 1970s.

20:10.770 --> 20:13.259
Those continued it through the

20:13.260 --> 20:14.549
use of the National Endowment for

20:14.550 --> 20:17.129
democracy and the privatization

20:17.130 --> 20:18.629
of intelligence capacities in the

20:18.630 --> 20:20.699
1980s under Reagan.

20:20.700 --> 20:22.649
There's all sorts of CIA

20:22.650 --> 20:23.909
reading room memos you can read,

20:23.910 --> 20:25.499
even on CIA.gov about those

20:25.500 --> 20:27.359
continued media relations throughout

20:27.360 --> 20:28.649
the 1990s.

20:28.650 --> 20:31.109
And so you always had this backdoor

20:31.110 --> 20:32.459
relationship between The Washington

20:32.460 --> 20:34.349
Post, The New York Times, and

20:34.350 --> 20:36.359
all of the major broadcast media

20:36.360 --> 20:37.409
corporations.

20:37.410 --> 20:38.999
By the way, you know, Rupert Murdoch

20:39.000 --> 20:40.709
and Fox are part of this as well.

20:40.710 --> 20:41.759
You know, Rupert Murdoch was

20:41.760 --> 20:42.929
actually part of the National

20:42.930 --> 20:45.449
Endowment for democracy coalition

20:45.450 --> 20:47.309
in 1983 when it was formed as

20:47.310 --> 20:49.589
a way to do CIA

20:49.590 --> 20:51.389
operations in an above board way

20:51.390 --> 20:53.249
after the Democrats were so

20:53.250 --> 20:55.019
ticked off at the CIA for

20:55.020 --> 20:56.489
manipulating student movements in

20:56.490 --> 20:57.809
the 1970s.

20:57.810 --> 20:59.969
But essentially there was no

20:59.970 --> 21:02.399
CIA intermediary

21:02.400 --> 21:04.379
to random citizen

21:04.380 --> 21:06.209
journalists, there was no Pentagon

21:06.210 --> 21:07.229
backstop.

21:07.230 --> 21:08.879
You couldn't get a story killed.

21:08.880 --> 21:10.499
You couldn't have this favors for

21:10.500 --> 21:11.729
favors relationship.

21:11.730 --> 21:13.379
You couldn't promise access to some

21:13.380 --> 21:15.359
random person with 700,000

21:15.360 --> 21:17.129
followers who's got an opinion on

21:17.130 --> 21:18.539
Syrian gas.

21:18.540 --> 21:20.519
And so this induced and

21:20.520 --> 21:22.349
this was not a problem for the

21:22.350 --> 21:24.179
initial period of social media from

21:24.180 --> 21:26.759
2006 to 2014, because

21:26.760 --> 21:28.049
there were never dissident groups

21:28.050 --> 21:30.089
that were big enough to be able to

21:30.090 --> 21:32.009
have a mature ecosystem on

21:32.010 --> 21:33.929
their own. And all of the

21:33.930 --> 21:36.809
victories on social media had gone,

21:36.810 --> 21:38.639
in the way of where the money

21:38.640 --> 21:39.629
was, which was from the State

21:39.630 --> 21:40.649
Department, and the Defense

21:40.650 --> 21:41.669
Department, and the intelligence

21:41.670 --> 21:42.599
services.

21:42.600 --> 21:44.549
But then as that maturity

21:44.550 --> 21:46.529
happened, you now had

21:46.530 --> 21:48.299
this situation after the 2016

21:48.300 --> 21:50.279
election where they said, okay,

21:50.280 --> 21:52.109
now the entire international order

21:52.110 --> 21:53.879
might come undone.

21:53.880 --> 21:56.339
70 years of unified foreign policy

21:56.340 --> 21:58.199
from Truman until Trump are

21:58.200 --> 21:59.759
now about to be broken.

21:59.760 --> 22:01.769
And we need a the

22:01.770 --> 22:03.899
same analog control

22:03.900 --> 22:05.399
systems. We had to be able to put

22:05.400 --> 22:07.529
bumper cars on bad stories

22:07.530 --> 22:08.309
or bad.

22:08.310 --> 22:10.049
Political movements through legacy

22:10.050 --> 22:12.029
media, relationships and contacts.

22:12.030 --> 22:13.889
We now need to establish and

22:13.890 --> 22:15.719
consolidate within the social media

22:15.720 --> 22:16.559
companies.

22:16.560 --> 22:17.849
An initial predicate for that was

22:17.850 --> 22:19.109
Russiagate. But then after

22:19.110 --> 22:20.939
Russiagate died and they used

22:20.940 --> 22:22.499
a simple democracy promotion

22:22.500 --> 22:24.569
predicate, then it gave

22:24.570 --> 22:26.459
rise to this multi-billion dollar

22:26.460 --> 22:28.019
censorship industry that joins

22:28.020 --> 22:30.089
together the military industrial

22:30.090 --> 22:31.919
complex, the government, the

22:31.920 --> 22:33.719
private sector, civil society

22:33.720 --> 22:35.909
organizations, and then this vast

22:35.910 --> 22:37.889
cobweb of media allies

22:37.890 --> 22:40.319
and professional fact checker groups

22:40.320 --> 22:42.029
that that serve as this sort of

22:42.030 --> 22:43.709
sentinel class that surveys every

22:43.710 --> 22:44.710
word on the internet.

22:46.210 --> 22:48.129
So, can you

22:48.130 --> 22:49.869
give us a, and thank you again for

22:49.870 --> 22:52.359
this almost unbelievable explanation

22:52.360 --> 22:53.919
of why this is happening.

22:53.920 --> 22:55.929
Can you give us an example of how

22:55.930 --> 22:56.799
it happens?

22:56.800 --> 22:58.869
How just and just pick one

22:58.870 --> 23:00.939
among I know countless examples

23:00.940 --> 23:03.609
of how the national security state

23:03.610 --> 23:05.919
lies to the population,

23:05.920 --> 23:08.019
censors the truth, in

23:08.020 --> 23:08.589
real life.

23:08.590 --> 23:10.539
Yeah. So, you know, we have

23:10.540 --> 23:12.699
this State Department outfit

23:12.700 --> 23:14.499
called the Global Engagement Center,

23:14.500 --> 23:16.389
which was created by a guy

23:16.390 --> 23:17.829
named Rick Stengel, who described

23:17.830 --> 23:19.749
himself as Obama's propagandist

23:19.750 --> 23:20.559
in chief.

23:20.560 --> 23:22.239
He was the undersecretary for public

23:22.240 --> 23:24.219
affairs, which is essentially the

23:24.220 --> 23:25.959
relationship which is the liaison

23:25.960 --> 23:28.059
office role between

23:28.060 --> 23:29.589
the State Department and the

23:29.590 --> 23:30.399
mainstream media.

23:30.400 --> 23:32.229
So this is basically the exact nexus

23:32.230 --> 23:34.329
where government talking points

23:34.330 --> 23:36.309
about war or about diplomacy

23:36.310 --> 23:38.499
or statecraft get synchronized

23:38.500 --> 23:39.399
with mainstream media.

23:39.400 --> 23:41.379
And I, may I add something to that

23:41.380 --> 23:43.179
is someone I know, Rick Stengel, he

23:43.180 --> 23:45.249
was at one point a journalist.

23:45.250 --> 23:47.079
And Rick Stengel has made

23:47.080 --> 23:48.549
public arguments against the First

23:48.550 --> 23:50.529
Amendment and against free speech.

23:50.530 --> 23:51.819
And, oh, yeah, he wrote a whole book

23:51.820 --> 23:53.469
on it. He published an op-ed in

23:53.470 --> 23:55.449
2019. He wrote a whole book on

23:55.450 --> 23:56.739
it. And he, you know, he made the

23:56.740 --> 23:58.209
argument that that we just, you

23:58.210 --> 23:59.919
know, went over here that

23:59.920 --> 24:00.920
essentially,

24:02.410 --> 24:04.089
the Constitution was not prepared

24:04.090 --> 24:05.079
for the internet.

24:05.080 --> 24:06.909
And, we need to get rid of

24:06.910 --> 24:09.369
the First Amendment, accordingly.

24:09.370 --> 24:11.169
And, you know, he described himself

24:11.170 --> 24:12.819
as a free speech absolutist when he

24:12.820 --> 24:14.199
was the managing editor of time

24:14.200 --> 24:15.279
magazine.

24:15.280 --> 24:16.809
And even when he was in the State

24:16.810 --> 24:17.987
Department under Obama,

24:19.120 --> 24:20.559
he started something called the

24:20.560 --> 24:22.029
Global Engagement Center, which was

24:22.030 --> 24:24.009
the first government

24:24.010 --> 24:26.379
censorship, operation

24:26.380 --> 24:27.579
within the federal government.

24:27.580 --> 24:29.439
But it was foreign facing, so it was

24:29.440 --> 24:31.269
okay. Now, at the time, they used

24:31.270 --> 24:33.099
the, the homegrown

24:33.100 --> 24:35.529
ISIS predicate threat for this.

24:35.530 --> 24:37.149
And so it was very hard to argue

24:37.150 --> 24:39.009
against the idea of the State

24:39.010 --> 24:41.019
Department, having this

24:41.020 --> 24:43.149
formal coordination partnership

24:43.150 --> 24:45.549
with every major tech platform,

24:45.550 --> 24:46.809
in the U.S.

24:46.810 --> 24:48.369
because the, you know, at the time,

24:48.370 --> 24:50.559
there were these ISIS attacks

24:50.560 --> 24:52.359
that were and we were told that ISIS

24:52.360 --> 24:53.559
was recruiting on Twitter and

24:53.560 --> 24:54.549
Facebook.

24:54.550 --> 24:56.049
And so the Global Engagement Center

24:56.050 --> 24:57.879
was was established essentially

24:57.880 --> 25:00.249
to be a State Department,

25:00.250 --> 25:01.989
entanglement with the social media

25:01.990 --> 25:03.729
companies to basically put bumper

25:03.730 --> 25:05.679
cars on their ability to,

25:05.680 --> 25:07.899
to platform accounts and to

25:07.900 --> 25:09.849
and, and one of the things they did

25:09.850 --> 25:12.729
is they created a new technology,

25:12.730 --> 25:14.649
which it's called natural

25:14.650 --> 25:15.789
language processing.

25:15.790 --> 25:17.679
It is a artificial intelligence,

25:17.680 --> 25:19.989
machine learning, ability

25:19.990 --> 25:21.999
to create meaning out

25:22.000 --> 25:23.889
of words in order to

25:23.890 --> 25:25.809
map everything that everyone says

25:25.810 --> 25:27.669
on the internet and create this

25:27.670 --> 25:29.979
vast topography, topography

25:29.980 --> 25:31.659
of how communities are organized

25:31.660 --> 25:33.549
online, who the major influencers

25:33.550 --> 25:35.049
are, what they're talking about,

25:35.050 --> 25:36.429
what narratives are emerging or

25:36.430 --> 25:38.109
trending, and to be able to create

25:38.110 --> 25:40.029
this sort of network graph,

25:40.030 --> 25:42.009
in order to know who to target

25:42.010 --> 25:43.959
and, and, and how information

25:43.960 --> 25:45.429
moves through an ecosystem.

25:45.430 --> 25:46.719
And so they began plotting the

25:46.720 --> 25:48.339
language, the prefixes, the

25:48.340 --> 25:50.199
suffixes, the popular terms,

25:50.200 --> 25:52.359
the slogans that ISIS,

25:52.360 --> 25:54.489
folks were talking about on Twitter

25:54.490 --> 25:56.589
when, when Trump won the election

25:56.590 --> 25:57.669
in 2016,

25:59.380 --> 26:01.149
everyone who worked at the State

26:01.150 --> 26:03.399
Department, was expecting

26:03.400 --> 26:05.169
these promotions to the white House,

26:05.170 --> 26:06.999
National Security Council under

26:07.000 --> 26:08.409
Hillary Clinton, who I should

26:08.410 --> 26:10.299
remind, viewers, you know,

26:10.300 --> 26:12.189
was also secretary of state under

26:12.190 --> 26:13.509
Obama, actually ran the State

26:13.510 --> 26:14.739
Department, but these folks were all

26:14.740 --> 26:16.939
expecting promotions on November

26:16.940 --> 26:19.329
18th, November 8th, 2016

26:19.330 --> 26:21.729
and were unceremoniously,

26:21.730 --> 26:23.469
put out of jobs by a guy who was a

26:23.470 --> 26:25.209
20 to 1 underdog, according to the

26:25.210 --> 26:26.259
New York Times, the day of the

26:26.260 --> 26:28.209
election and when when that

26:28.210 --> 26:29.679
happened, these State Department

26:29.680 --> 26:31.029
folks took their special set of

26:31.030 --> 26:34.239
skills coercing governments,

26:34.240 --> 26:36.459
to, for sanctions

26:36.460 --> 26:38.889
in the State Department led the,

26:38.890 --> 26:40.719
the effort to sanction Russia

26:40.720 --> 26:42.759
over the Crimea annexation

26:42.760 --> 26:44.199
in 2014.

26:44.200 --> 26:46.059
These State Department diplomats did

26:46.060 --> 26:47.589
an international roadshow to

26:47.590 --> 26:49.089
pressure European governments to

26:49.090 --> 26:51.219
pass censorship laws, to

26:51.220 --> 26:52.749
censor the right wing populist

26:52.750 --> 26:55.119
groups in Europe, and as a boomerang

26:55.120 --> 26:57.219
impact to censor populist groups

26:57.220 --> 26:59.079
who were affiliated in the U.S..

26:59.080 --> 27:00.080
So you had folks,

27:01.690 --> 27:03.219
you had folks who went from the

27:03.220 --> 27:04.419
State Department directly, for

27:04.420 --> 27:06.009
example, to the Atlantic Council,

27:06.010 --> 27:07.509
which was which was this major

27:07.510 --> 27:09.399
facilitator, between the

27:09.400 --> 27:11.289
government, between government to

27:11.290 --> 27:12.399
government censorship. The Atlantic

27:12.400 --> 27:14.229
Council is a group

27:14.230 --> 27:16.149
that was one of Biden's biggest

27:16.150 --> 27:17.499
political backers.

27:17.500 --> 27:19.479
They bill themselves

27:19.480 --> 27:21.249
as NATO's think tank.

27:21.250 --> 27:22.959
So they represent the political

27:22.960 --> 27:25.089
senses of NATO in

27:25.090 --> 27:27.969
many respects. When NATO has,

27:27.970 --> 27:29.799
civil society actions that they

27:29.800 --> 27:31.809
want to be coordinated to,

27:31.810 --> 27:33.399
to synchronize with military action,

27:33.400 --> 27:35.319
a region the Atlantic Council

27:35.320 --> 27:36.609
essentially is deployed to

27:36.610 --> 27:38.469
consensus, build and make that

27:38.470 --> 27:39.999
political action happen within a

27:40.000 --> 27:41.919
region of interest to NATO.

27:41.920 --> 27:43.539
Now, the Atlantic Council has seven

27:43.540 --> 27:45.219
CIA directors on its board.

27:45.220 --> 27:46.519
A lot of people don't even know that

27:46.520 --> 27:48.769
seven CIA directors are still alive,

27:48.770 --> 27:49.770
let alone all concentrated on

27:50.810 --> 27:52.349
the board of a single organization.

27:52.350 --> 27:53.959
That's kind of the heavyweight in

27:53.960 --> 27:54.889
the censorship industry.

27:54.890 --> 27:56.149
They get annual funding from the

27:56.150 --> 27:57.529
Department of Defense, the State

27:57.530 --> 27:59.209
Department, and CIA cutouts like the

27:59.210 --> 28:00.829
National Endowment for democracy.

28:00.830 --> 28:02.809
The Atlantic Council in January

28:02.810 --> 28:05.239
2017 moved immediately

28:05.240 --> 28:06.979
to pressure European governments to

28:06.980 --> 28:08.719
pass censorship laws to create a

28:08.720 --> 28:10.729
transatlantic flank attack

28:10.730 --> 28:12.709
on free speech in exactly the way

28:12.710 --> 28:14.389
that Rick Stengel essentially called

28:14.390 --> 28:16.249
for to have US mimic

28:16.250 --> 28:18.049
European censorship laws.

28:18.050 --> 28:19.969
One of the ways they did this was

28:19.970 --> 28:21.589
by getting Germany to pass something

28:21.590 --> 28:23.549
called NetzDG in August

28:23.550 --> 28:25.459
2017, which was which, which

28:25.460 --> 28:27.919
was essentially kicked off the era

28:27.920 --> 28:29.929
of, of automated

28:29.930 --> 28:31.489
censorship in the U.S.

28:31.490 --> 28:33.379
what NetzDG required was

28:33.380 --> 28:35.239
unless unless social media

28:35.240 --> 28:36.919
platforms wanted to pay a $54

28:36.920 --> 28:38.929
million fine for each

28:38.930 --> 28:40.939
instance of speech, each post left

28:40.940 --> 28:42.139
up on their platform for more than

28:42.140 --> 28:44.059
48 hours that had been identified

28:44.060 --> 28:45.499
as hate speech.

28:45.500 --> 28:47.389
They would they would be

28:47.390 --> 28:49.339
fined basically into bankruptcy

28:49.340 --> 28:51.709
when you aggregate 54 million over

28:51.710 --> 28:53.539
tens of thousands of posts per day.

28:53.540 --> 28:55.669
And the the safe haven around

28:55.670 --> 28:58.129
that was if they deployed artificial

28:58.130 --> 28:59.839
intelligence based censorship

28:59.840 --> 29:01.339
technologies, which had been again

29:01.340 --> 29:03.289
created by DARPA to take

29:03.290 --> 29:05.119
on ISIS, to be able to

29:05.120 --> 29:07.939
scan and ban speech automatically.

29:07.940 --> 29:09.349
And this was a this gave no.

29:09.350 --> 29:10.579
I call these weapons of mass

29:10.580 --> 29:11.389
deletion.

29:11.390 --> 29:13.279
These are essentially the ability

29:13.280 --> 29:15.169
to censor tens of millions of

29:15.170 --> 29:17.029
posts with just a few

29:17.030 --> 29:18.289
lines of code.

29:18.290 --> 29:20.269
And the way this is done is by

29:20.270 --> 29:22.159
aggregating

29:22.160 --> 29:24.229
basically the field of censorship

29:24.230 --> 29:26.059
science fuzes together two

29:26.060 --> 29:27.739
disparate groups of study, if you

29:27.740 --> 29:30.079
will. There's this sort of political

29:30.080 --> 29:31.999
and social scientists who

29:32.000 --> 29:33.259
are the sort of thought leaders of

29:33.260 --> 29:34.639
what should be censored.

29:34.640 --> 29:35.599
And then there are the sort of

29:35.600 --> 29:36.559
quants, if you will.

29:36.560 --> 29:38.029
These are the programmers, the

29:38.030 --> 29:39.769
computational data scientists,

29:39.770 --> 29:41.149
computational linguistics.

29:41.150 --> 29:42.979
Every university, there's over 60

29:42.980 --> 29:44.749
universities now who get federal

29:44.750 --> 29:46.669
government grants to do this.

29:46.670 --> 29:48.619
Censorship, the censorship

29:48.620 --> 29:49.729
work and the censorship preparation

29:49.730 --> 29:50.989
work, where what they do is they

29:50.990 --> 29:52.639
create these code books of the

29:52.640 --> 29:54.259
language that people use the same

29:54.260 --> 29:55.129
way they did for ISIS.

29:55.130 --> 29:56.029
They do this, for example, with

29:56.030 --> 29:58.159
Covid, they created these these

29:58.160 --> 30:00.169
Covid lexicons of what dissident

30:00.170 --> 30:01.999
groups were saying about mandates,

30:02.000 --> 30:04.339
about masks, about vaccines,

30:04.340 --> 30:05.989
about high profile individuals like

30:05.990 --> 30:07.879
Tony Fauci or,

30:07.880 --> 30:08.880
were,

30:10.280 --> 30:12.259
Peter Daszak or any of these others

30:12.260 --> 30:14.209
protected VIP and individuals whose

30:14.210 --> 30:15.499
reputations had to be protected

30:15.500 --> 30:17.449
online. And they created these code

30:17.450 --> 30:19.519
books. They broke things down into

30:19.520 --> 30:20.899
narratives. The Atlantic Council,

30:20.900 --> 30:22.579
for example, was a part of this,

30:22.580 --> 30:24.649
this government funded consortium,

30:24.650 --> 30:25.759
something called the Virality

30:25.760 --> 30:27.619
Project, which which mapped

30:27.620 --> 30:29.479
66 different narratives

30:29.480 --> 30:31.009
that dissidents were talking about

30:31.010 --> 30:32.449
around Covid, everything from Covid

30:32.450 --> 30:34.879
origins to vaccine efficacy.

30:34.880 --> 30:37.189
And then they broke down these 66

30:37.190 --> 30:38.629
claims into all the different

30:38.630 --> 30:40.129
factual sub claims.

30:40.130 --> 30:41.989
And then they plugged these into

30:41.990 --> 30:43.669
these essentially machine learning

30:43.670 --> 30:45.739
models to be able to have a

30:45.740 --> 30:47.899
constant world heat map

30:47.900 --> 30:49.549
of what everybody was saying about

30:49.550 --> 30:50.749
Covid. And whenever something

30:50.750 --> 30:52.579
started a trend that was bad

30:52.580 --> 30:54.109
for what the Pentagon wanted or was

30:54.110 --> 30:55.999
bad for what Tony Fauci wanted,

30:56.000 --> 30:57.769
they were able to take down tens of

30:57.770 --> 30:58.729
millions of posts.

30:58.730 --> 31:00.979
They did this in the 2020 election

31:00.980 --> 31:01.939
with Mail-In ballots.

31:01.940 --> 31:02.940
It was this week.

31:04.160 --> 31:05.659
I'm sorry. I just got to have

31:05.660 --> 31:07.399
there's so much here and it's so

31:07.400 --> 31:08.299
shocking.

31:08.300 --> 31:10.279
So you're saying the Pentagon,

31:10.280 --> 31:12.229
our Pentagon, the

31:12.230 --> 31:14.809
U.S. Department of Defense censored

31:14.810 --> 31:16.729
Americans during the

31:16.730 --> 31:18.619
2020 election

31:18.620 --> 31:19.459
cycle?

31:19.460 --> 31:21.019
Yes, they did this.

31:21.020 --> 31:22.789
They oh, they did this through the

31:22.790 --> 31:24.709
so so there's the

31:24.710 --> 31:26.569
two most censored events in human

31:26.570 --> 31:28.519
history, I would argue to date

31:28.520 --> 31:30.439
are the 2020 election and

31:30.440 --> 31:33.169
the Covid 19 pandemic.

31:33.170 --> 31:35.089
And I'll explain, you know, how

31:35.090 --> 31:36.019
I arrived there.

31:36.020 --> 31:38.989
So the 2020 election

31:38.990 --> 31:40.849
was determined by mail in ballots.

31:40.850 --> 31:42.199
And I'm not weighing into the

31:42.200 --> 31:43.909
substance of whether mail in ballots

31:43.910 --> 31:45.679
were or were not a legitimate or

31:45.680 --> 31:47.569
safe and reliable form of

31:47.570 --> 31:48.949
a voting. That's a completely

31:48.950 --> 31:50.899
independent topic from

31:50.900 --> 31:52.159
my perspective and the censorship

31:52.160 --> 31:54.089
issue. One but the censorship

31:54.090 --> 31:56.059
of mail in ballots is

31:56.060 --> 31:57.619
really one of the most extraordinary

31:57.620 --> 31:59.719
stories in our American

31:59.720 --> 32:01.729
history I would argue. What happened

32:01.730 --> 32:04.009
was, is you had this plot

32:04.010 --> 32:05.299
within the Department of Homeland

32:05.300 --> 32:06.229
Security.

32:06.230 --> 32:07.999
Now this gets back to what we were

32:08.000 --> 32:09.049
talking about with the State

32:09.050 --> 32:10.159
Department's Global Engagement

32:10.160 --> 32:11.599
Center. You had this group within

32:11.600 --> 32:13.069
the Atlantic Council in the foreign

32:13.070 --> 32:15.259
policy establishment, which

32:15.260 --> 32:17.119
began arguing in 2017 for

32:17.120 --> 32:19.099
the need for a permanent domestic

32:19.100 --> 32:21.409
censorship government office

32:21.410 --> 32:23.299
to serve as a quarterback for what

32:23.300 --> 32:25.159
they called a home of society.

32:25.160 --> 32:27.139
Counter misinformation, counter

32:27.140 --> 32:28.759
disinformation alliance.

32:28.760 --> 32:29.779
That just means censorship.

32:29.780 --> 32:31.609
The counter missed this info, but

32:31.610 --> 32:33.409
whole of their whole society model

32:33.410 --> 32:35.329
explicitly proposed that

32:35.330 --> 32:37.189
that we need every

32:37.190 --> 32:39.079
single asset within society

32:39.080 --> 32:40.879
to be mobilized in a whole of

32:40.880 --> 32:42.679
society effort to stop

32:42.680 --> 32:44.449
misinformation online.

32:44.450 --> 32:45.729
It was that much of. An existential

32:45.730 --> 32:46.869
threat to democracy.

32:46.870 --> 32:49.509
And so it but they they

32:49.510 --> 32:51.339
fixated in 2017 that it

32:51.340 --> 32:52.629
had to be centered within the

32:52.630 --> 32:53.949
government because only the

32:53.950 --> 32:56.019
government would have the clout and

32:56.020 --> 32:57.879
the coercive threat powers and

32:57.880 --> 32:59.769
the and the perceived authority

32:59.770 --> 33:01.809
to be able to tell the social

33:01.810 --> 33:03.549
media companies what to do, to be

33:03.550 --> 33:05.589
able to summon in a government

33:05.590 --> 33:07.359
funded NGOs form, to create that

33:07.360 --> 33:09.189
media surround sound, to be able

33:09.190 --> 33:11.019
to arm in a, you

33:11.020 --> 33:12.879
know, an astroturf army of of fact

33:12.880 --> 33:14.319
checkers and to be able to liaise

33:14.320 --> 33:15.909
and connect all these different

33:15.910 --> 33:17.979
censorship industry actors into

33:17.980 --> 33:19.929
a cohesive, unified whole.

33:19.930 --> 33:21.339
And the Atlantic Council initially

33:21.340 --> 33:23.019
proposed with this blueprint called

33:23.020 --> 33:24.069
forward defense.

33:24.070 --> 33:25.359
It's not offense, it's forward

33:25.360 --> 33:26.649
defense guys.

33:26.650 --> 33:28.479
They initially proposed that running

33:28.480 --> 33:29.709
this out of the State Department's

33:29.710 --> 33:31.329
Global engagement Center, because

33:31.330 --> 33:33.159
they had so many assets there who

33:33.160 --> 33:34.839
were so effective at censorship

33:34.840 --> 33:36.759
under Rick Stengel Steed, and under

33:36.760 --> 33:38.079
the Obama administration.

33:38.080 --> 33:39.459
But they said, oh, we we're not

33:39.460 --> 33:40.389
gonna be able to get away with that

33:40.390 --> 33:41.379
because we don't really have a
national

33:41.380 --> 33:42.909
security predicate, and it's

33:42.910 --> 33:43.929
supposed to be foreign facing.

33:43.930 --> 33:45.339
We can't really use that hook unless

33:45.340 --> 33:46.749
we have a sort of national security

33:46.750 --> 33:48.909
one. Then they contemplated parking

33:48.910 --> 33:50.829
at the CIA and they said, well,

33:50.830 --> 33:51.999
actually, there's two reasons we

33:52.000 --> 33:52.839
can't do that.

33:52.840 --> 33:54.399
CIA is foreign facing, and we can't

33:54.400 --> 33:55.779
really establish a
counterintelligence

33:55.780 --> 33:57.249
threat to bring it home domestically.

33:57.250 --> 33:58.359
Also, we're going to need

33:58.360 --> 33:59.619
essentially tens of thousands of

33:59.620 --> 34:01.359
people involved in this operation

34:01.360 --> 34:03.159
spanning this whole society model.

34:03.160 --> 34:04.479
You can't really run a clandestine

34:04.480 --> 34:05.739
operation that way.

34:05.740 --> 34:06.819
So they said, okay, well, what about

34:06.820 --> 34:08.408
the FBI? They said, well, the FBI

34:08.409 --> 34:09.939
would be great. It's domestic.

34:09.940 --> 34:11.678
But the problem is, is the FBI is

34:11.679 --> 34:13.299
supposed to be the intelligence arm

34:13.300 --> 34:15.218
of the Justice Department and

34:15.219 --> 34:17.019
weak. And what we're dealing with

34:17.020 --> 34:18.709
here are not acts of lawbreaking.

34:18.710 --> 34:20.738
That's basically support for Trump.

34:20.739 --> 34:22.658
Or if, you know, if a left wing

34:22.659 --> 34:24.069
populist had risen to power like

34:24.070 --> 34:25.988
Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn, I

34:25.989 --> 34:26.948
have no doubt they would have done

34:26.949 --> 34:28.209
in the UK, they would have done the

34:28.210 --> 34:29.259
same thing to him there.

34:29.260 --> 34:30.999
They targeted Jeremy Corbyn and

34:31.000 --> 34:32.649
other left wing populist NATO

34:32.650 --> 34:34.329
skeptical groups in Europe.

34:34.330 --> 34:35.349
But in the U.S.

34:35.350 --> 34:36.519
it was it was all Trump.

34:36.520 --> 34:38.169
And so essentially what they said

34:38.170 --> 34:40.178
is, well, the only other domestic

34:40.179 --> 34:41.919
intelligence equity we have in the

34:41.920 --> 34:44.529
US besides the FBI is the DHS.

34:44.530 --> 34:46.359
So we are going to essentially take

34:46.360 --> 34:48.369
the CIA's power to rig

34:48.370 --> 34:49.869
and bribe foreign media

34:49.870 --> 34:51.579
organizations, which is a power

34:51.580 --> 34:52.839
they've had since the day they were

34:52.840 --> 34:54.609
born in 1947.

34:54.610 --> 34:56.649
And we're going to combine that with

34:56.650 --> 34:58.359
the power, with the domestic

34:58.360 --> 35:00.399
jurisdiction of the FBI

35:00.400 --> 35:02.619
by putting it at DHS.

35:02.620 --> 35:04.569
So DHS was basically

35:04.570 --> 35:05.769
deputized.

35:05.770 --> 35:07.149
It was empowered through this

35:07.150 --> 35:09.069
obscure little cyber security,

35:09.070 --> 35:11.079
agency to have the combined

35:11.080 --> 35:12.969
powers that the CIA has abroad with

35:12.970 --> 35:15.099
the jurisdiction of the FBI at home.

35:15.100 --> 35:16.959
And the way they did this, how

35:16.960 --> 35:18.339
did a cyber and an obscure little

35:18.340 --> 35:20.169
cyber security agency get

35:20.170 --> 35:22.689
this power was they

35:22.690 --> 35:24.579
did a funny little series

35:24.580 --> 35:25.719
of switch ruse.

35:25.720 --> 35:27.909
So this little thing called CISA

35:27.910 --> 35:29.169
the and call it the Disinformation

35:29.170 --> 35:30.309
Governance Board. They didn't call

35:30.310 --> 35:31.779
it the censorship agency.

35:31.780 --> 35:33.399
They gave it an obscure little name

35:33.400 --> 35:34.539
that no one would notice, called the

35:34.540 --> 35:36.159
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure

35:36.160 --> 35:38.169
Security Agency, who its founder

35:38.170 --> 35:39.969
said, we just security, we care

35:39.970 --> 35:41.079
about security so much it's in our

35:41.080 --> 35:42.669
name twice. And everybody sort of

35:42.670 --> 35:44.589
closed their eyes and pretended,

35:44.590 --> 35:45.819
you know, that's what it was.

35:45.820 --> 35:47.109
But it was created by act of

35:47.110 --> 35:48.939
Congress in 2018

35:48.940 --> 35:50.379
because of the perceived threat that

35:50.380 --> 35:53.019
Russia had hacked the 2016

35:53.020 --> 35:54.879
election, had physically hacked

35:54.880 --> 35:57.039
it. And so we needed the cyber

35:57.040 --> 35:58.869
security power,

35:58.870 --> 36:00.759
to be able to, to be

36:00.760 --> 36:01.689
able to deal with that. And

36:01.690 --> 36:03.159
essentially on the heels of a CIA

36:03.160 --> 36:05.559
memo on January 6th, 2017,

36:05.560 --> 36:07.869
and a same day, DHS executive

36:07.870 --> 36:10.149
order on January 6th, 2017,

36:10.150 --> 36:12.189
arguing that Russia had interfered

36:12.190 --> 36:14.499
in the 2016 election and a DHS

36:14.500 --> 36:15.789
mandate, saying that elections are

36:15.790 --> 36:17.589
now critical infrastructure.

36:17.590 --> 36:20.079
You had this new power within DHS

36:20.080 --> 36:22.239
to say that cyber security attacks

36:22.240 --> 36:24.189
on elections are now our

36:24.190 --> 36:24.999
purview.

36:25.000 --> 36:27.249
And then they did two cute things.

36:27.250 --> 36:29.469
One, they said

36:29.470 --> 36:31.149
so they said, miss this.

36:31.150 --> 36:33.909
And information online

36:33.910 --> 36:36.249
are a form of cyber security

36:36.250 --> 36:38.019
attack. They are a cyber attack

36:38.020 --> 36:40.329
because they are happening online.

36:40.330 --> 36:42.759
And they said, well, actually

36:42.760 --> 36:44.769
Russian disinformation is

36:44.770 --> 36:46.269
we're actually protecting democracy

36:46.270 --> 36:47.619
in elections. We don't need a

36:47.620 --> 36:49.119
Russian predicate after Russiagate

36:49.120 --> 36:51.339
died. So just like that,

36:51.340 --> 36:53.439
you had the Cyber Security Agency

36:53.440 --> 36:56.199
be able to legally make the argument

36:56.200 --> 36:58.239
that your tweets about Mail-In

36:58.240 --> 37:00.069
ballots, if you undermine public

37:00.070 --> 37:01.929
faith and confidence in them

37:01.930 --> 37:03.849
as a legitimate form of voting,

37:03.850 --> 37:05.679
was now you were now conducting

37:05.680 --> 37:07.539
a cyber attack on US critical

37:07.540 --> 37:09.519
infrastructure by by

37:09.520 --> 37:11.259
articulating misinformation on

37:11.260 --> 37:12.069
Twitter.

37:12.070 --> 37:13.539
And just like that and now what they

37:13.540 --> 37:14.529
did then is they.

37:14.530 --> 37:15.530
So in other words, complaining

37:17.320 --> 37:19.329
about election fraud is the same as

37:19.330 --> 37:21.309
taking down our power grid.

37:21.310 --> 37:23.169
Yes, you could literally be on your

37:23.170 --> 37:25.539
toilet seat at 9:30 on

37:25.540 --> 37:27.759
a Thursday night and tweet,

37:27.760 --> 37:29.469
"I think that Mail-In ballots are

37:29.470 --> 37:31.479
illegitimate." And you

37:31.480 --> 37:33.309
were essentially then caught up

37:33.310 --> 37:34.749
in the crosshairs of the Department

37:34.750 --> 37:36.399
of Homeland Security, classifying

37:36.400 --> 37:38.739
you as conducting a cyber

37:38.740 --> 37:39.639
attack on U.S.

37:39.640 --> 37:41.439
critical infrastructure because you

37:41.440 --> 37:43.869
were doing misinformation

37:43.870 --> 37:45.689
online in the cyber realm and

37:45.690 --> 37:47.849
misinformation is a cyber attack

37:47.850 --> 37:49.919
on democracy when it undermines

37:49.920 --> 37:52.769
public faith and confidence in

37:52.770 --> 37:54.929
our democratic elections

37:54.930 --> 37:55.781
and our democratic institutions.

37:55.782 --> 37:57.719
They would end up going far

37:57.720 --> 37:58.619
beyond that. They would actually

37:58.620 --> 38:00.719
define democratic institutions

38:00.720 --> 38:01.979
as being another thing that was a

38:01.980 --> 38:04.049
cyber security attack to,

38:04.050 --> 38:04.829
to undermine.

38:04.830 --> 38:05.939
And lo and behold, the mainstream

38:05.940 --> 38:07.709
media is considered a democratic

38:07.710 --> 38:08.489
institution.

38:08.490 --> 38:09.809
That would come later.

38:09.810 --> 38:11.459
What ended up happening was in

38:11.460 --> 38:13.229
advance of the 2020 election,

38:13.230 --> 38:15.119
starting in April of 2020, although

38:15.120 --> 38:17.069
this goes back before. You had this

38:17.070 --> 38:19.229
essentially Never-Trump neocon

38:19.230 --> 38:21.779
Republican DHS

38:21.780 --> 38:23.609
working with essentially

38:23.610 --> 38:25.889
NATO on the national security side

38:25.890 --> 38:28.109
and and essentially the DNC,

38:28.110 --> 38:30.179
if you will, to to

38:30.180 --> 38:32.069
use DHS as the launching

38:32.070 --> 38:34.019
point for a government

38:34.020 --> 38:36.509
coordinated mass censorship

38:36.510 --> 38:38.669
campaign spanning every

38:38.670 --> 38:40.589
single social media platform on

38:40.590 --> 38:42.749
Earth in order to pre

38:42.750 --> 38:44.579
censor the ability to

38:44.580 --> 38:46.319
dispute the legitimacy of mail in

38:46.320 --> 38:47.699
ballots. And here's how they did

38:47.700 --> 38:49.679
this. They aggregated four

38:49.680 --> 38:50.680
different institutions: Stanford

38:52.410 --> 38:54.029
University, the University of

38:54.030 --> 38:55.799
Washington, a company called

38:55.800 --> 38:57.929
Graphika, and the Atlantic Council.

38:57.930 --> 38:59.879
Now all four of these institutions,

38:59.880 --> 39:01.739
the centers within them, were

39:01.740 --> 39:03.569
where we're essentially Pentagon

39:03.570 --> 39:04.529
cutouts.

39:04.530 --> 39:06.419
You had, you had at the Stanford

39:06.420 --> 39:07.469
Internet Observatory.

39:07.470 --> 39:09.179
It was actually run by Michael

39:09.180 --> 39:10.019
McFaul.

39:10.020 --> 39:11.489
If you know Michael McFaul, he was

39:11.490 --> 39:13.221
the U.S. ambassador to Russia

39:14.820 --> 39:16.679
under the Obama

39:16.680 --> 39:17.879
administration.

39:17.880 --> 39:19.919
And he personally authored

39:19.920 --> 39:21.749
a seven step playbook for

39:21.750 --> 39:23.369
how to successfully orchestrate a

39:23.370 --> 39:25.409
color revolution that is, in

39:25.410 --> 39:27.329
part of that involved maintaining

39:27.330 --> 39:29.099
total   control over media and

39:29.100 --> 39:30.959
social media, juicing up the

39:30.960 --> 39:33.329
civil society outfits,

39:33.330 --> 39:35.279
calling elections illegitimate

39:35.280 --> 39:36.299
in order....

39:36.300 --> 39:37.289
All of these people were

39:37.290 --> 39:38.579
professional Russiagaters,

39:38.580 --> 39:39.869
professional election

39:39.870 --> 39:41.054
de-legitimizers in 2016.

39:41.055 --> 39:42.055
So

39:44.250 --> 39:45.250
Stanford University, the

39:47.280 --> 39:49.139
Stanford Observatory under Michael

39:49.140 --> 39:50.969
McFaul was run by Alex Stamos,

39:50.970 --> 39:52.889
who was formerly a Facebook

39:52.890 --> 39:55.319
executive who coordinated with

39:55.320 --> 39:57.479
DNI and the, with respect

39:57.480 --> 39:59.759
to, Russiagate,

39:59.760 --> 40:00.959
you know, taking down Russian

40:00.960 --> 40:02.819
propaganda at Facebook.

40:02.820 --> 40:05.159
So this is another, liaison

40:05.160 --> 40:06.359
essentially to the national security

40:06.360 --> 40:07.979
state and under Alex Stamos at

40:07.980 --> 40:09.959
Stanford Observatory was

40:09.960 --> 40:11.639
Renée DiResta, who started her

40:11.640 --> 40:13.499
career in the CIA and wrote

40:13.500 --> 40:14.789
the Senate Intelligence Committee

40:14.790 --> 40:16.709
report on Russian

40:16.710 --> 40:17.729
disinformation.

40:17.730 --> 40:19.289
And there's a lot more there that

40:19.290 --> 40:20.309
I'll get to at another time.

40:20.310 --> 40:22.679
But, the next institution

40:22.680 --> 40:24.479
was was the University of

40:24.480 --> 40:25.979
Washington, which is essentially the

40:25.980 --> 40:28.169
Bill Gates University in Seattle,

40:28.170 --> 40:30.809
who is headed by Kate Starbird, who,

40:30.810 --> 40:32.819
is is basically three generations

40:32.820 --> 40:34.709
of military brass who got her PhD in

40:34.710 --> 40:36.749
crisis informatics, essentially

40:36.750 --> 40:38.519
doing, you know, social media

40:38.520 --> 40:39.959
surveillance for the Pentagon and

40:39.960 --> 40:41.999
getting, you know, DARPA funding

40:42.000 --> 40:44.039
and, and working essentially

40:44.040 --> 40:45.389
with the national security state

40:45.390 --> 40:47.159
then repurposed to take on mail in

40:47.160 --> 40:49.109
ballots. The third firm, Graphika,

40:49.110 --> 40:51.179
got $7 million in Pentagon

40:51.180 --> 40:52.180
grants,

40:53.310 --> 40:54.929
and got their start as part of the

40:54.930 --> 40:56.729
Pentagon's Minerva initiative.

40:56.730 --> 40:58.199
The Minerva initiative is the

40:58.200 --> 41:00.239
psychological warfare research

41:00.240 --> 41:01.919
center of the Pentagon.

41:01.920 --> 41:03.809
This group was

41:03.810 --> 41:06.449
doing social media spying

41:06.450 --> 41:08.009
and narrative mapping for the

41:08.010 --> 41:10.049
Pentagon until the 2016 election

41:10.050 --> 41:11.489
happened and then were were

41:11.490 --> 41:13.169
repurposed into a partnership with

41:13.170 --> 41:14.879
the Department of Homeland Security

41:14.880 --> 41:16.979
to censor, you know, 22 million

41:16.980 --> 41:19.139
Trump tweets, pro-Trump tweets

41:19.140 --> 41:20.309
about Mail-In ballots.

41:20.310 --> 41:21.629
And then the fourth institution, as

41:21.630 --> 41:22.619
I mentioned, was the Atlantic

41:22.620 --> 41:24.059
Council, who's got seven CIA

41:24.060 --> 41:25.139
directors on the board.

41:25.140 --> 41:27.119
So one after another, it is

41:27.120 --> 41:29.339
exactly what Ben Rhodes described

41:29.340 --> 41:31.589
it during the Obama era as the blob,

41:31.590 --> 41:33.449
the foreign policy establishment.

41:33.450 --> 41:35.579
It's a it's the it's the Defense

41:35.580 --> 41:36.779
Department, the State Department, or

41:36.780 --> 41:39.119
the CIA every single time.

41:39.120 --> 41:40.589
And of course, this was because they

41:40.590 --> 41:42.299
were they were threatened by Trump's

41:42.300 --> 41:43.469
foreign policy.

41:43.470 --> 41:45.389
And so while while

41:45.390 --> 41:46.529
much of the censorship looks like

41:46.530 --> 41:48.359
it's coming domestically, it's

41:48.360 --> 41:49.799
actually by our foreign facing

41:49.800 --> 41:51.569
department of dirty tricks, color

41:51.570 --> 41:53.069
revolution blob, who are

41:53.070 --> 41:54.989
professional government topless,

41:54.990 --> 41:56.759
who were then basically descended on

41:56.760 --> 41:58.169
the 2020 election.

41:58.170 --> 41:59.759
Now they did this.

41:59.760 --> 42:01.289
They explicitly said the head of

42:01.290 --> 42:03.449
this election integrity partnership

42:03.450 --> 42:05.489
on tape and

42:05.490 --> 42:06.929
my foundation clipped them.

42:06.930 --> 42:07.829
And it's been played before

42:07.830 --> 42:09.569
Congress. And it's in, you know, a

42:09.570 --> 42:11.279
part of the Missouri v Biden lawsuit

42:11.280 --> 42:13.319
now, but they explicitly

42:13.320 --> 42:15.209
said on tape that they were set

42:15.210 --> 42:17.279
up to do what the government

42:17.280 --> 42:19.379
was banned from doing itself.

42:19.380 --> 42:20.819
And then they articulated a

42:20.820 --> 42:22.649
multi-step framework in order to

42:22.650 --> 42:25.049
coerce all the tech companies

42:25.050 --> 42:26.489
to take censorship actions.

42:26.490 --> 42:27.539
They said on tape, the tech

42:27.540 --> 42:28.799
companies would not have done, but

42:28.800 --> 42:30.689
for their pressure, which involved

42:30.690 --> 42:32.279
using threats of government force.

42:32.280 --> 42:34.109
Because they were the deputized arm

42:34.110 --> 42:36.029
of the government, they had a formal

42:36.030 --> 42:37.409
partnership with the DHS.

42:37.410 --> 42:39.029
They were able to use DHS as

42:39.030 --> 42:41.489
proprietary domestic disinformation

42:41.490 --> 42:43.499
switchboard to immediately talk

42:43.500 --> 42:44.429
to top brass.

42:44.430 --> 42:45.449
All the tech companies for

42:45.450 --> 42:47.399
takedowns, and they bragged on tape

42:47.400 --> 42:48.629
about how they got the tech

42:48.630 --> 42:50.669
companies to all systematically

42:50.670 --> 42:52.829
adopt a new terms of service speech

42:52.830 --> 42:53.909
violation band called

42:53.910 --> 42:55.799
delegitimization, which meant

42:55.800 --> 42:57.989
any tweet, any YouTube video,

42:57.990 --> 43:00.149
any Facebook post, any TikTok

43:00.150 --> 43:02.249
video, any discord posts,

43:02.250 --> 43:04.289
any Twitch video, anything

43:04.290 --> 43:06.719
on the internet that that,

43:06.720 --> 43:08.219
undermined public faith and

43:08.220 --> 43:10.109
confidence in the use of mail

43:10.110 --> 43:12.509
in ballots or early voting dropboxes

43:12.510 --> 43:14.429
or or ballot

43:14.430 --> 43:16.319
tabulation issues on election Day

43:16.320 --> 43:18.719
was a prima facia,

43:18.720 --> 43:20.609
Terms of Service violation policy

43:20.610 --> 43:22.169
under this new delegitimization

43:22.170 --> 43:24.599
policy that they only adopted

43:24.600 --> 43:26.249
because of past through government

43:26.250 --> 43:28.049
pressure from the Election Integrity

43:28.050 --> 43:29.309
Partnership, which they bragged

43:29.310 --> 43:31.019
about on tape, including the grid

43:31.020 --> 43:32.909
that they used to do this and

43:32.910 --> 43:34.949
simultaneously invoking threats of

43:34.950 --> 43:36.959
government, breaking them up, or

43:36.960 --> 43:38.339
government stopping doing favors for

43:38.340 --> 43:39.419
the tech companies unless they did

43:39.420 --> 43:41.429
this, as well as inducing crisis PR

43:41.430 --> 43:43.349
by working with their media allies.

43:43.350 --> 43:44.879
And they said the government, DHS

43:44.880 --> 43:46.049
could not do that themselves.

43:46.050 --> 43:48.899
And so they set up this basically

43:48.900 --> 43:50.999
constellation of State Department,

43:51.000 --> 43:52.949
Pentagon, and

43:52.950 --> 43:54.869
I.C. networks to run

43:54.870 --> 43:56.819
this pre censorship campaign,

43:56.820 --> 43:58.949
which by their own math, had 22

43:58.950 --> 44:01.079
million tweets on Twitter alone.

44:01.080 --> 44:02.909
And I think it's on 15 platforms.

44:02.910 --> 44:04.199
This is hundreds of millions of

44:04.200 --> 44:06.029
posts which were all

44:06.030 --> 44:08.039
scanned and banned or throttled

44:08.040 --> 44:09.659
so that they could not be amplified

44:09.660 --> 44:10.979
or they exist in a sort of limited

44:10.980 --> 44:13.019
state purgatory, or had these

44:13.020 --> 44:14.639
frictions affixed to them in the

44:14.640 --> 44:16.469
form of fact checking labels

44:16.470 --> 44:17.459
where you couldn't actually click

44:17.460 --> 44:18.779
through to thing or you had to.

44:18.780 --> 44:20.009
It was is an inconvenience to be

44:20.010 --> 44:21.239
able to share it.

44:21.240 --> 44:22.409
Now, they did this seven months

44:22.410 --> 44:24.089
before the election because at the

44:24.090 --> 44:25.949
time they were worried about

44:25.950 --> 44:28.019
the perceived legitimacy of a Biden

44:28.020 --> 44:30.179
victory in the case of a so-called

44:30.180 --> 44:32.009
red mirage blue shift

44:32.010 --> 44:32.909
event.

44:32.910 --> 44:34.499
They knew the only way that Biden

44:34.500 --> 44:36.029
would be able to was would win

44:36.030 --> 44:38.039
mathematically, was through

44:38.040 --> 44:39.869
the disproportionate Democrat use

44:39.870 --> 44:41.399
of mail in ballots.

44:41.400 --> 44:42.779
They knew there would be a crisis

44:42.780 --> 44:43.799
because it was going to look

44:43.800 --> 44:45.809
extremely weird if if

44:45.810 --> 44:47.399
Trump looked like he won by seven

44:47.400 --> 44:49.529
states and, you know,

44:49.530 --> 44:51.299
and then three days later it comes

44:51.300 --> 44:52.439
out, actually, the election

44:52.440 --> 44:53.609
switched. I mean, that that would

44:53.610 --> 44:55.469
put the election crisis of the

44:55.470 --> 44:57.419
Bush Gore election, on

44:57.420 --> 44:59.069
a level of steroids that the

44:59.070 --> 45:01.169
national security state said, well,

45:01.170 --> 45:02.729
the public will not be prepared for

45:02.730 --> 45:04.709
it. So what we need to do is we

45:04.710 --> 45:06.659
need to in advance we

45:06.660 --> 45:08.519
need to pre censor the ability to

45:08.520 --> 45:10.379
even question the legitimacy

45:10.380 --> 45:11.369
this took out.

45:11.370 --> 45:12.479
Wait, wait, wait. May I ask you to

45:12.480 --> 45:13.979
pause right there.

45:13.980 --> 45:15.478
So what you're saying is...

45:15.479 --> 45:17.849
What you're suggesting is

45:17.850 --> 45:19.199
they knew the outcome of the

45:19.200 --> 45:20.789
election seven months before it was

45:20.790 --> 45:21.389
held.

45:21.390 --> 45:22.800
It looks very bad.

45:25.050 --> 45:26.820
Yes, Mike, it does look very bad.

45:29.400 --> 45:30.569
You know, and especially when you

45:30.570 --> 45:31.799
combine this with the fact that this

45:31.800 --> 45:33.719
is right on the heels of the

45:33.720 --> 45:36.209
impeachment, the Pentagon-led,

45:36.210 --> 45:37.949
CIA-led impeachment.

45:37.950 --> 45:39.959
You know, it was, Eric

45:39.960 --> 45:41.339
Ciaramella  from the CIA, and it was

45:41.340 --> 45:43.319
the Vindmans from the Pentagon,

45:43.320 --> 45:45.509
who led the impeachment of Trump

45:45.510 --> 45:47.429
in late 2019

45:47.430 --> 45:49.589
over, you know, an alleged phone

45:49.590 --> 45:51.929
call around withholding Ukraine

45:51.930 --> 45:53.849
aid. This same network,

45:53.850 --> 45:55.829
which came straight out of the

45:55.830 --> 45:58.320
Pentagon, hybrid warfare

45:59.400 --> 46:01.859
military censorship network created

46:01.860 --> 46:03.689
after the first, you know, Ukraine

46:03.690 --> 46:05.639
crisis in 2014,

46:05.640 --> 46:07.619
were the lead architects of

46:07.620 --> 46:09.479
the Ukraine impeachment

46:09.480 --> 46:11.429
in 2019 and then essentially came

46:11.430 --> 46:13.649
back on steroids as part of the 2020

46:13.650 --> 46:15.569
election censorship operation.

46:15.570 --> 46:16.589
But, you know, from their

46:16.590 --> 46:18.569
perspective, I mean, it

46:18.570 --> 46:20.369
certainly looks like the perfect

46:20.370 --> 46:21.269
crime.

46:21.270 --> 46:23.369
These were the people DHS

46:23.370 --> 46:25.109
at the time had actually federalized

46:25.110 --> 46:27.030
much of, of the national election,

46:28.920 --> 46:30.839
administration through this January

46:30.840 --> 46:32.130
6th, 2017,

46:33.390 --> 46:35.369
executive order from outgoing

46:35.370 --> 46:37.259
Obama DHS

46:37.260 --> 46:39.209
head Jeh Johnson, which

46:39.210 --> 46:41.069
essentially wrapped all 50 states up

46:41.070 --> 46:42.689
into a formal DHS partnership.

46:42.690 --> 46:44.579
So DHS was simultaneously in charge

46:44.580 --> 46:46.079
of the administration of the

46:46.080 --> 46:47.939
election in many respects, and the

46:47.940 --> 46:50.159
censorship of anyone who challenged

46:50.160 --> 46:52.049
the administration,

46:52.050 --> 46:53.969
of the election. It's just like,

46:53.970 --> 46:55.529
you know, putting essentially the

46:55.530 --> 46:57.389
defendant, of a

46:57.390 --> 46:59.249
trial, as the judge

46:59.250 --> 47:01.119
and jury of the trial.

47:01.120 --> 47:03.209
But you're not describing democracy.

47:03.210 --> 47:04.379
I mean, you're describing a country

47:04.380 --> 47:05.999
in which democracy is impossible.

47:06.000 --> 47:07.409
What I'm essentially describing is

47:07.410 --> 47:08.410
military rule.

47:09.450 --> 47:11.339
I mean what's happened with the rise

47:11.340 --> 47:13.319
of the censorship industry is

47:13.320 --> 47:15.119
a total inversion of the idea of

47:15.120 --> 47:16.229
democracy itself.

47:16.230 --> 47:18.059
You know, the democracy sort of

47:18.060 --> 47:19.919
draws its legitimacy from

47:19.920 --> 47:22.229
the idea that it is,

47:22.230 --> 47:24.360
rule by consent of

47:25.470 --> 47:26.609
the people being rule.

47:26.610 --> 47:28.139
That is, it's not really being ruled

47:28.140 --> 47:29.339
by an overlord, because the

47:29.340 --> 47:31.499
government is actually just our will

47:31.500 --> 47:33.449
expressed by our consent with who we

47:33.450 --> 47:34.450
vote for.

47:35.190 --> 47:37.229
The whole push after the 2016

47:37.230 --> 47:39.089
election and after Brexit

47:39.090 --> 47:40.649
and after a couple of other, you

47:40.650 --> 47:42.479
know, social media run

47:42.480 --> 47:43.889
elections that went the wrong way

47:43.890 --> 47:44.969
from. What the State Department

47:44.970 --> 47:46.739
wanted, like the 2016 Philippines

47:46.740 --> 47:48.599
election, was to

47:48.600 --> 47:50.669
completely invert everything

47:50.670 --> 47:52.559
that we described as

47:52.560 --> 47:54.209
being the underpinnings of a

47:54.210 --> 47:55.889
democratic society in order to deal

47:55.890 --> 47:56.879
with the threat of free speech on

47:56.880 --> 47:57.779
the internet.

47:57.780 --> 48:00.149
And what they essentially said is

48:00.150 --> 48:02.009
we need to redefine democracy from

48:02.010 --> 48:03.869
being about the will of the voters

48:03.870 --> 48:05.489
to being about the sanctity of

48:05.490 --> 48:07.259
democratic institutions.

48:07.260 --> 48:08.639
And who are the democratic

48:08.640 --> 48:10.469
institutions? Oh, it's us, you know,

48:10.470 --> 48:12.329
it's the military, it's NATO,

48:12.330 --> 48:14.159
it's the IMF and the World Bank.

48:14.160 --> 48:16.109
It's the mainstream

48:16.110 --> 48:18.209
media, who it is,

48:18.210 --> 48:19.169
the NGOs.

48:19.170 --> 48:21.119
And of course, these NGOs

48:21.120 --> 48:22.829
are largely State Department funded

48:22.830 --> 48:23.999
or IC funded.

48:24.000 --> 48:25.919
It's essentially all of the

48:25.920 --> 48:27.360
elite establishments,

48:28.500 --> 48:30.479
that were under threat from

48:30.480 --> 48:32.669
the rise of domestic populism

48:32.670 --> 48:35.069
that declared their own consensus

48:35.070 --> 48:36.719
to be the new definition of

48:36.720 --> 48:38.279
democracy. Because if you define

48:38.280 --> 48:39.689
democracy as being the strength of

48:39.690 --> 48:41.879
democratic institutions rather

48:41.880 --> 48:43.019
than a focus on the will of the

48:43.020 --> 48:44.909
voters, then what

48:44.910 --> 48:46.859
you're left with is essentially

48:46.860 --> 48:48.809
democracy is just the consensus

48:48.810 --> 48:50.489
building architecture within

48:51.750 --> 48:52.979
the democratic institutions

48:52.980 --> 48:54.179
themselves. And from their

48:54.180 --> 48:55.619
perspective, that takes a lot of

48:55.620 --> 48:57.509
work. I mean, I mean,

48:57.510 --> 48:59.579
the amount of work these people do.

48:59.580 --> 49:01.229
I mean, for example, we mentioned

49:01.230 --> 49:02.489
the Atlantic Council, which is one

49:02.490 --> 49:04.949
of these big coordinating mechanisms

49:04.950 --> 49:07.019
for the oil and gas industry

49:07.020 --> 49:09.179
in a region for the for the finance

49:09.180 --> 49:10.589
and the JPMorgan's in the

49:10.590 --> 49:12.269
BlackRock's in a region, for the

49:12.270 --> 49:13.739
NGOs in the region, for the media,

49:13.740 --> 49:15.239
in the region. All of these need to

49:15.240 --> 49:16.529
reach a consensus.

49:16.530 --> 49:17.759
And that process takes a lot of

49:17.760 --> 49:19.139
time. It takes a lot of work and a

49:19.140 --> 49:20.309
lot of negotiation.

49:20.310 --> 49:22.259
From their perspective, that's

49:22.260 --> 49:23.159
democracy.

49:23.160 --> 49:24.869
Democracy is getting the NGOs to

49:24.870 --> 49:26.739
agree with Blackrock, to agree

49:26.740 --> 49:28.589
with the Wall Street Journal, you

49:28.590 --> 49:30.899
know, to agree with,

49:30.900 --> 49:32.459
you know, the community and activist

49:32.460 --> 49:34.079
groups who are onboarded with

49:34.080 --> 49:35.729
respect to a particular initiative.

49:35.730 --> 49:37.919
That is the difficult vote building

49:37.920 --> 49:39.329
process from their perspective.

49:39.330 --> 49:41.279
At the end of the day, a bunch

49:41.280 --> 49:43.259
of, you know, populist groups decide

49:43.260 --> 49:45.179
that they like a truck driver

49:45.180 --> 49:47.009
who's popular on TikTok more

49:47.010 --> 49:48.629
than the, you know, carefully

49:48.630 --> 49:50.729
constructed consensus of

49:50.730 --> 49:52.769
the NATO military brass.

49:52.770 --> 49:54.509
Well, then, from their perspective,

49:54.510 --> 49:56.669
you know, that is now an attack

49:56.670 --> 49:58.109
on democracy.

49:58.110 --> 49:59.699
And this is what this whole branding

49:59.700 --> 50:01.349
effort was. And of course, democracy

50:01.350 --> 50:03.389
again, has that magic regime change

50:03.390 --> 50:05.489
predicate, where democracy

50:05.490 --> 50:07.319
is, is our magic watchword

50:07.320 --> 50:09.479
to be able to overthrow governments

50:09.480 --> 50:11.009
from the ground up in a sort of

50:11.010 --> 50:13.079
color revolution style, whole

50:13.080 --> 50:15.059
of society effort to toppling

50:15.060 --> 50:16.949
a democratically elected

50:16.950 --> 50:18.479
government from the inside.

50:18.480 --> 50:20.069
For example, as we did in Ukraine,

50:20.070 --> 50:21.599
Viktor Yanukovych was democratically

50:21.600 --> 50:23.369
elected by the Ukrainian people,

50:23.370 --> 50:25.079
like him or hate him.

50:25.080 --> 50:26.969
I'm not even issuing an opinion

50:26.970 --> 50:28.859
there. But the fact is, is we

50:28.860 --> 50:30.029
color revolutioned him out of

50:30.030 --> 50:31.769
office, we January 6th'd him out of

50:31.770 --> 50:33.509
office. Actually, to be frank, I

50:33.510 --> 50:35.369
mean with respect to... you had, you

50:35.370 --> 50:37.109
know, a State Department funded

50:37.110 --> 50:39.479
right sector thugs and,

50:39.480 --> 50:41.309
you know, $5 billion worth of

50:41.310 --> 50:42.899
civil society money pumped into this

50:42.900 --> 50:44.249
to overthrow a democratically

50:44.250 --> 50:45.509
elected government in the name of

50:45.510 --> 50:46.649
democracy.

50:46.650 --> 50:48.449
And they took that special set of

50:48.450 --> 50:49.949
skills home.

50:49.950 --> 50:52.439
And now it's here,

50:52.440 --> 50:54.239
perhaps potentially, to stay.

50:54.240 --> 50:56.609
And this is fundamentally changed

50:56.610 --> 50:58.829
the nature of American

50:58.830 --> 51:01.409
governance because of the threat of,

51:01.410 --> 51:03.089
you know, one small voice becoming

51:03.090 --> 51:04.459
popular on social media.

51:04.460 --> 51:05.549
May I ask you a question.

51:05.550 --> 51:07.679
So into that, that group

51:07.680 --> 51:09.599
of institutions that you say,

51:09.600 --> 51:12.210
now define democracy, the NGOs,

51:13.590 --> 51:15.209
foreign policy establishment, you

51:15.210 --> 51:17.969
included the mainstream media.

51:17.970 --> 51:20.219
Now, in 2021,

51:20.220 --> 51:22.559
the NSA broke into my private

51:22.560 --> 51:24.989
text apps and

51:24.990 --> 51:26.669
read them and then leaked them to

51:26.670 --> 51:28.229
the New York Times against me.

51:28.230 --> 51:30.269
That just happened again to me

51:30.270 --> 51:31.270
last week.

51:32.190 --> 51:34.259
And I'm wondering how common

51:34.260 --> 51:36.089
that is for the Intel

51:36.090 --> 51:38.219
agencies to work with

51:38.220 --> 51:39.869
so-called mainstream media like the

51:39.870 --> 51:41.999
New York Times to hurt

51:42.000 --> 51:43.049
their opponents.

51:43.050 --> 51:45.419
Well, that is the function of these

51:45.420 --> 51:47.429
interstitial, government

51:47.430 --> 51:48.779
funded non-governmental

51:48.780 --> 51:50.849
organizations and think tanks.

51:50.850 --> 51:52.139
Like, for example, we mentioned the

51:52.140 --> 51:53.729
Atlantic Council, which is, you

51:53.730 --> 51:54.689
know, NATO's think tank.

51:54.690 --> 51:55.859
But other groups like the Aspen

51:55.860 --> 51:57.779
Institute, which draws the lion's

51:57.780 --> 51:59.459
share of its funding from the State

51:59.460 --> 52:00.839
Department and other government

52:00.840 --> 52:01.949
agencies. You know, the Aspen

52:01.950 --> 52:03.539
Institute was busted doing the same

52:03.540 --> 52:05.039
thing with the Hunter Biden laptop

52:05.040 --> 52:05.939
censorship.

52:05.940 --> 52:07.469
You know, you had this strange

52:07.470 --> 52:09.479
situation where the FBI

52:09.480 --> 52:11.429
had advance knowledge of the pending

52:11.430 --> 52:13.049
publication of the Hunter Biden

52:13.050 --> 52:15.479
laptop story, and then, magically,

52:15.480 --> 52:17.339
the Aspen Institute, which

52:17.340 --> 52:19.499
is run by essentially former

52:19.500 --> 52:21.809
CIA, former NSA,

52:21.810 --> 52:23.909
former FBI, and then a bunch

52:23.910 --> 52:25.019
of sort of civil society

52:25.020 --> 52:26.969
organizations, all

52:26.970 --> 52:29.219
hold a mass,

52:29.220 --> 52:30.402
stakeholder censorship

52:31.710 --> 52:34.139
simulation, a three day,

52:34.140 --> 52:35.609
conference. You know, this came out

52:35.610 --> 52:36.839
and Yoel Roth was there.

52:36.840 --> 52:38.009
This was a big part of the Twitter

52:38.010 --> 52:40.019
file leaks. And it's been mentioned

52:40.020 --> 52:40.919
in multiple congressional

52:40.920 --> 52:43.019
investigations. But somehow

52:43.020 --> 52:44.020
the Aspen Institute, which

52:45.770 --> 52:47.599
is basically an

52:47.600 --> 52:49.759
addendum of the national security

52:49.760 --> 52:51.739
state got

52:51.740 --> 52:53.599
the exact same information that

52:53.600 --> 52:55.939
the national security state spied

52:55.940 --> 52:58.009
on journalists and political

52:58.010 --> 52:59.959
figures to obtain and

52:59.960 --> 53:01.489
not only leaked it, but then

53:01.490 --> 53:03.799
basically did a joint coordinated

53:03.800 --> 53:05.839
censorship simulator

53:05.840 --> 53:07.699
in September, two months before the

53:07.700 --> 53:09.589
election, in order, just like

53:09.590 --> 53:10.639
with the censorship of mail in

53:10.640 --> 53:12.799
ballots, to be in ready position

53:12.800 --> 53:15.139
to pre censor anyone

53:15.140 --> 53:17.599
online amplifying

53:17.600 --> 53:18.619
a news story that had not even

53:18.620 --> 53:19.159
broken yet.

53:19.160 --> 53:21.409
The Aspen Institute?

53:21.410 --> 53:22.789
So I mean, which is, by the way,

53:22.790 --> 53:24.183
I've spent my life in Washington'...

53:24.184 --> 53:25.184
Walter

53:26.270 --> 53:27.859
Isaacson, formerly of Time Magazine,

53:27.860 --> 53:29.749
ran it, for former president

53:29.750 --> 53:30.750
of CNN.

53:31.490 --> 53:33.259
I had no idea it was part of the

53:33.260 --> 53:34.279
national security state, I had no

53:34.280 --> 53:35.509
idea its funding came from the US

53:35.510 --> 53:36.539
government.

53:36.540 --> 53:37.519
This the first time I ever heard

53:37.520 --> 53:39.559
that. But given assuming

53:39.560 --> 53:41.209
what you're saying is true, it's a

53:41.210 --> 53:43.309
little weird that Walter Isaacson

53:43.310 --> 53:45.289
left Aspen Institute to

53:45.290 --> 53:47.558
write a biography of Elon Musk.

53:47.559 --> 53:48.559
Strange?

53:48.740 --> 53:49.740
Yeah.

53:51.020 --> 53:53.089
I don't know. I haven't read

53:53.090 --> 53:53.889
that book.

53:53.890 --> 53:55.879
I from what I've heard from

53:55.880 --> 53:57.229
people, it's a relatively fair

53:57.230 --> 53:58.039
treatment.

53:58.040 --> 54:00.319
I, you know, just total speculation.

54:00.320 --> 54:02.449
But I suspect that Walter Isaacson

54:02.450 --> 54:04.309
has struggled with this issue and

54:04.310 --> 54:06.139
may not even firmly fall in one

54:06.140 --> 54:07.999
particular place, in the

54:08.000 --> 54:09.229
sense that, you know, Walter

54:09.230 --> 54:11.509
Isaacson did a series of interviews

54:11.510 --> 54:13.489
of Rick Stengel,

54:13.490 --> 54:15.049
actually, with the Atlantic

54:15.050 --> 54:17.419
Council,  in other settings,

54:17.420 --> 54:18.949
where he interviewed Rick Stengel,

54:18.950 --> 54:20.868
specifically on the issue of you

54:23.150 --> 54:24.529
know, the need to get rid of the

54:24.530 --> 54:26.239
First Amendment and the threat that

54:26.240 --> 54:27.979
free speech on social media poses to

54:27.980 --> 54:28.909
democracy.

54:28.910 --> 54:30.169
Now, at the time, I was very

54:30.170 --> 54:32.179
concerned. This was between 2017

54:32.180 --> 54:33.679
and 2019 when he did these Rick

54:33.680 --> 54:34.579
Stengel interviews.

54:34.580 --> 54:36.259
I was very concerned because

54:36.260 --> 54:38.239
Isaacson expressed what seemed

54:38.240 --> 54:40.729
to me to be a highly sympathetic,

54:40.730 --> 54:43.219
view about the Rick Stengel,

54:43.220 --> 54:45.049
you know, perspective on killing

54:45.050 --> 54:46.099
the First Amendment.

54:46.100 --> 54:47.929
Now, he didn't formally endorse

54:47.930 --> 54:49.369
that position, but it left me very

54:49.370 --> 54:50.869
skittish about Isaacson.

54:50.870 --> 54:52.729
But what I should say is, at

54:52.730 --> 54:54.619
the time, I don't think very

54:54.620 --> 54:56.329
many people, in fact, I know

54:56.330 --> 54:58.429
virtually nobody in the country,

55:00.110 --> 55:01.969
had any idea how deep

55:01.970 --> 55:03.859
the rabbit hole went when it came

55:03.860 --> 55:05.149
to the construction of the

55:05.150 --> 55:07.519
censorship industry and

55:07.520 --> 55:09.199
how deep the tentacles had grown

55:09.200 --> 55:10.699
within the military, in the national

55:10.700 --> 55:12.799
security state, in order to Bouie

55:12.800 --> 55:14.659
and consolidated much of that,

55:14.660 --> 55:16.639
frankly, did not even come to public

55:16.640 --> 55:17.740
light until even

55:18.800 --> 55:19.969
last year.

55:19.970 --> 55:21.199
You know, frankly, some of that was

55:21.200 --> 55:23.179
galvanized by Elon Musks acquisition

55:23.180 --> 55:24.559
in the Twitter files and the

55:24.560 --> 55:26.089
Republican turnover in the House

55:26.090 --> 55:26.959
that allowed these multiple

55:26.960 --> 55:29.149
investigations, the lawsuits

55:29.150 --> 55:30.139
like Missouri v. Biden in the

55:30.140 --> 55:31.429
discovery process there.

55:32.510 --> 55:33.979
And, you know, multiple other things

55:33.980 --> 55:35.209
like the Disinformation Governance

55:35.210 --> 55:36.889
Board, who, by the way, the interim

55:36.890 --> 55:38.735
head of that, the head of that, Nina

55:38.736 --> 55:41.089
Jankowicz, got her start,

55:41.090 --> 55:43.009
in the censorship industry from this

55:43.010 --> 55:44.899
exact same,

55:44.900 --> 55:46.789
clandestine intelligence

55:46.790 --> 55:48.589
community censorship network created

55:48.590 --> 55:50.689
after the 2014 Crimea situation.

55:50.690 --> 55:52.759
Nina Jankowicz, when her name came

55:52.760 --> 55:54.589
up in 2022, is part of

55:54.590 --> 55:56.869
the Disinformation Governance Board.

55:56.870 --> 55:58.279
I almost fell out of my chair

55:58.280 --> 56:00.439
because I had been tracking Nina's

56:00.440 --> 56:02.629
network for almost five

56:02.630 --> 56:03.979
years at that point, when her when

56:03.980 --> 56:05.989
her name came up as part of the

56:05.990 --> 56:07.999
UK inner cluster cell

56:08.000 --> 56:09.979
of a busted clandestine

56:09.980 --> 56:11.419
operation to censor the internet

56:11.420 --> 56:13.459
called the Integrity Initiative,

56:13.460 --> 56:15.559
which was created by the UK Foreign

56:15.560 --> 56:17.389
Office and was backed

56:17.390 --> 56:19.909
by NATO Political Affairs

56:19.910 --> 56:22.189
unit, in order to

56:22.190 --> 56:24.109
carry out this thing

56:24.110 --> 56:24.889
that we talked about at the

56:24.890 --> 56:26.779
beginning of this, of this dialog,

56:26.780 --> 56:29.179
the NATO, sort of psychological

56:29.180 --> 56:31.789
inoculation, and,

56:31.790 --> 56:33.619
the ability to kill so-called

56:33.620 --> 56:35.749
Russian propaganda or rising

56:35.750 --> 56:37.729
political groups who wanted,

56:37.730 --> 56:39.679
to maintain energy relations

56:39.680 --> 56:41.479
with Russia at a time when the U.S.

56:41.480 --> 56:43.339
was trying to kill the Nord Stream

56:43.340 --> 56:45.029
and another, pipeline relation.

56:45.030 --> 56:46.030
Well, they did that.

56:48.860 --> 56:50.089
Nina Jankowicz was a part of this

56:50.090 --> 56:50.869
outfit.

56:50.870 --> 56:52.699
And then who is

56:52.700 --> 56:54.499
the head of it after Nina Jankowicz

56:54.500 --> 56:56.059
went down. It was Michael Chertoff,

56:56.060 --> 56:57.559
and Michael Chertoff was running the

56:57.560 --> 56:59.479
Aspen Institute Cyber Group, and

56:59.480 --> 57:01.249
then the Aspen Institute then goes

57:01.250 --> 57:03.049
on to be the censorship simulator

57:03.050 --> 57:04.489
for the Hunter Biden laptop story.

57:04.490 --> 57:06.469
And then two years later, Chertoff

57:06.470 --> 57:07.669
is then the head of the

57:07.670 --> 57:09.259
disinformation governance board

57:09.260 --> 57:10.939
after Nina was forced to step down.

57:10.940 --> 57:12.829
Of course, Michael

57:12.830 --> 57:15.139
Chertoff was the chairman at BAE

57:15.140 --> 57:16.140
I'm sorry.

57:16.510 --> 57:18.079
And Michael Chertoff was the

57:18.080 --> 57:19.909
chairman of the largest

57:19.910 --> 57:21.199
military contractor in Europe,

57:23.060 --> 57:24.079
BAE Military.

57:24.080 --> 57:25.080
So you've

57:26.660 --> 57:28.219
blown my mind so many times in this

57:28.220 --> 57:29.299
conversation that I'm going to need

57:29.300 --> 57:31.429
a nap directly after it's done.

57:31.430 --> 57:33.319
So I've just got two more questions

57:33.320 --> 57:34.269
for you. One short, one a little

57:34.270 --> 57:35.270
longer.

57:35.990 --> 57:36.829
The short one is, for people who've
made it

57:36.830 --> 57:38.659
this far i- an hour in - and want

57:38.660 --> 57:40.549
to know more about this topic.

57:40.550 --> 57:41.689
And by the way, I hope you'll come

57:41.690 --> 57:43.030
back whenever you have the time

57:44.050 --> 57:45.129
to explore different threads of the

57:45.130 --> 57:45.909
story.

57:45.910 --> 57:47.919
But for people who want to do

57:47.920 --> 57:49.989
research on their own, how can

57:49.990 --> 57:52.569
your research on this

57:52.570 --> 57:53.889
be found on the internet?

57:53.890 --> 57:55.719
Sure. So our foundation is

57:55.720 --> 57:56.720
FoundationForFreedomOnline.com.

57:58.660 --> 58:01.089
We publish all manner

58:01.090 --> 58:02.799
of reports on every aspect of the

58:02.800 --> 58:03.849
censorship industry

58:05.020 --> 58:06.219
from what we talked about with the

58:06.220 --> 58:07.329
role of the military industrial

58:07.330 --> 58:09.129
complex in national security, state

58:09.130 --> 58:11.199
to what the universities are doing

58:11.200 --> 58:13.239
to, you know, like I sometimes refer

58:13.240 --> 58:15.069
to as digital MKUltra, there's

58:15.070 --> 58:16.239
just the field of basically the

58:16.240 --> 58:18.099
science of censorship and how

58:18.100 --> 58:19.389
and the funding of these

58:19.390 --> 58:21.819
psychological manipulation methods

58:21.820 --> 58:23.499
in order to nudge people into

58:23.500 --> 58:24.699
different belief systems, as they

58:24.700 --> 58:26.469
did with Covid, as they did with

58:26.470 --> 58:28.449
energy and every

58:28.450 --> 58:29.979
sensitive policy issues, what they

58:29.980 --> 58:31.779
essentially had an ambition for.

58:31.780 --> 58:32.780
But my

58:33.880 --> 58:34.659
FoundationForFreedomOnline.com

58:34.660 --> 58:35.559
website is one way.

58:35.560 --> 58:37.749
The other way is just on X.

58:37.750 --> 58:40.089
My handle is at Mike Benz Cyber.

58:40.090 --> 58:41.949
I'm very active there and

58:41.950 --> 58:43.839
publish a lot of long form video and

58:43.840 --> 58:45.399
written content on all this.

58:45.400 --> 58:46.989
I think it's one of the most

58:46.990 --> 58:48.849
important issues in the world today.

58:48.850 --> 58:50.169
It certainly is. And so that leads

58:50.170 --> 58:52.359
directly and seamlessly to my final

58:52.360 --> 58:54.339
question, which

58:54.340 --> 58:55.569
is about X.

58:55.570 --> 58:56.919
And I'm not just saying this because

58:56.920 --> 58:58.359
I post content there, but I think

58:58.360 --> 59:00.129
objectively it's the last big

59:00.130 --> 59:02.229
platform that's free or sort

59:02.230 --> 59:03.819
of free or more free.

59:03.820 --> 59:04.820
You post there too.

59:06.040 --> 59:07.359
But, you know, we're at the very

59:07.360 --> 59:09.549
beginning of an election year

59:09.550 --> 59:11.319
with a couple of different wars

59:11.320 --> 59:12.320
unfolding simultaneously in

59:14.200 --> 59:16.569
2024. So do you expect

59:16.570 --> 59:18.789
that that platform can stay free

59:18.790 --> 59:20.409
for the duration of this year?

59:20.410 --> 59:21.410
It's under an

59:22.270 --> 59:23.589
extraordinary amount of pressure,

59:23.590 --> 59:24.819
and that pressure is going to

59:24.820 --> 59:26.739
continue to mount as the election

59:26.740 --> 59:27.740
approaches.

59:28.660 --> 59:30.069
Elon Musk is a very unique

59:30.070 --> 59:32.109
individual, and he

59:32.110 --> 59:34.149
has a unique buffer, perhaps

59:34.150 --> 59:35.229
when it comes to the national

59:35.230 --> 59:37.089
security state, because the national

59:37.090 --> 59:38.469
security state is actually quite

59:38.470 --> 59:39.762
reliant on Elon

59:41.740 --> 59:43.329
Musk properties, whether that's for

59:43.330 --> 59:45.699
the, the electrical,

59:45.700 --> 59:47.019
you know, the sort of the green

59:47.020 --> 59:48.849
revolution when it comes to Tesla

59:48.850 --> 59:50.919
and, and the battery technology

59:50.920 --> 59:52.419
there when it comes, when it comes

59:52.420 --> 59:54.459
to Space X, the State Department

59:54.460 --> 59:56.299
is hugely dependent

59:56.300 --> 59:58.149
on, on space,

59:58.150 --> 01:00:01.059
because of its unbelievable,

01:00:01.060 --> 01:00:03.039
you sort of pioneering and

01:00:03.040 --> 01:00:04.929
saturating presence in the field of

01:00:04.930 --> 01:00:07.269
low Earth orbit satellites

01:00:07.270 --> 01:00:09.099
that, are basically how our

01:00:09.100 --> 01:00:10.959
telecom system runs

01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.579
to things like Starlink.

01:00:12.580 --> 01:00:13.749
There are dependencies that the

01:00:13.750 --> 01:00:15.639
national security state has on Elon

01:00:15.640 --> 01:00:17.769
Musk. I'm not sure he'd have as much

01:00:17.770 --> 01:00:19.869
room to negotiate if he had

01:00:19.870 --> 01:00:21.099
become the world's richest man,

01:00:21.100 --> 01:00:22.929
selling, you know,

01:00:22.930 --> 01:00:23.949
at a lemonade stand.

01:00:25.300 --> 01:00:27.309
And if the national security

01:00:27.310 --> 01:00:28.989
state goes too hard on him by

01:00:28.990 --> 01:00:30.789
invoking something like CFIUS to

01:00:30.790 --> 01:00:31.929
sort of nationalize some of these

01:00:31.930 --> 01:00:33.339
properties, I think the shockwave

01:00:33.340 --> 01:00:34.389
that it would send to the

01:00:34.390 --> 01:00:35.919
international investor community

01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:37.869
would be irrecoverable at a time

01:00:37.870 --> 01:00:39.099
when we're engaged in great power

01:00:39.100 --> 01:00:40.239
competition.

01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:42.009
So they're trying to kill, you know,

01:00:42.010 --> 01:00:43.749
they're trying to sort of induce a,

01:00:43.750 --> 01:00:45.189
I think, a sort of corporate regime

01:00:45.190 --> 01:00:47.289
change through, a series

01:00:47.290 --> 01:00:48.969
of things involving a sort of death

01:00:48.970 --> 01:00:50.619
by a thousand paper cuts.

01:00:50.620 --> 01:00:52.989
I think there are 7 or 8 different

01:00:52.990 --> 01:00:55.239
Justice Department or SEC

01:00:55.240 --> 01:00:57.309
or FTC investigations into Elon

01:00:57.310 --> 01:00:59.679
Musk properties that all started,

01:00:59.680 --> 01:01:01.929
after his acquisition of

01:01:01.930 --> 01:01:03.279
X. But then what they're trying to

01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:04.749
do right now is what I call the

01:01:04.750 --> 01:01:07.039
transatlantic flank attack 2.0.

01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:09.369
You know, we talked in this dialog

01:01:09.370 --> 01:01:11.109
about how the censorship industry

01:01:11.110 --> 01:01:12.969
really got its start when a bunch of

01:01:12.970 --> 01:01:14.769
State Department exiles, who were

01:01:14.770 --> 01:01:16.509
expecting promotions, took their

01:01:16.510 --> 01:01:18.129
special set of skills in coercing

01:01:18.130 --> 01:01:20.019
European countries to pass

01:01:20.020 --> 01:01:21.909
sanctions on themselves to cut off

01:01:21.910 --> 01:01:24.129
their own leg despite themselves,

01:01:24.130 --> 01:01:25.749
in order to pass sanctions on

01:01:25.750 --> 01:01:27.549
Russia. They ran back that same

01:01:27.550 --> 01:01:29.469
playbook with doing a road show

01:01:29.470 --> 01:01:30.939
for censorship instead for

01:01:30.940 --> 01:01:32.799
sanctions. We are now witnessing,

01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:34.569
you know, transatlantic flank attack

01:01:34.570 --> 01:01:36.399
2.0, if you will, which is

01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:37.989
because they have lost a lot of

01:01:37.990 --> 01:01:38.990
their federal government powers

01:01:40.570 --> 01:01:42.489
to do this same censorship operation

01:01:42.490 --> 01:01:44.679
they been doing from 2018 to 2022,

01:01:44.680 --> 01:01:46.629
in part because the House has

01:01:46.630 --> 01:01:48.159
totally turned on them, in part

01:01:48.160 --> 01:01:49.359
because of the media, in part

01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:50.419
because Missouri v.

01:01:50.420 --> 01:01:52.359
Biden, which won a slam dunk

01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:53.919
case actually banning government

01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:55.509
censorship at the trial court and

01:01:55.510 --> 01:01:56.904
appellate court levels, is now

01:01:58.210 --> 01:01:59.559
before the Supreme Court.

01:01:59.560 --> 01:02:01.149
They've now moved into two

01:02:01.150 --> 01:02:02.079
strategies.

01:02:02.080 --> 01:02:04.359
One of them is state

01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:06.249
level censorship laws.

01:02:06.250 --> 01:02:08.139
California just passed a new law

01:02:08.140 --> 01:02:09.519
which the censorship industry

01:02:09.520 --> 01:02:11.319
totally drove from start to finish

01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:12.219
around...

01:02:12.220 --> 01:02:13.220
They call it platform

01:02:14.140 --> 01:02:15.999
accountability and transparency,

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:18.309
which is basically forcing

01:02:18.310 --> 01:02:20.169
Elon Musk to give

01:02:20.170 --> 01:02:22.089
over the kind of narrative

01:02:22.090 --> 01:02:24.129
mapping data that these

01:02:24.130 --> 01:02:26.259
CIA conduits and Pentagon cutouts

01:02:26.260 --> 01:02:28.179
were using to create these weapons

01:02:28.180 --> 01:02:29.739
of mass deletion, these abilities to

01:02:29.740 --> 01:02:31.269
just censor everything at scale

01:02:31.270 --> 01:02:32.469
because they had all the internal

01:02:32.470 --> 01:02:33.399
platform data.

01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:34.719
Elon Musk took that away.

01:02:34.720 --> 01:02:36.039
They're using state laws like this

01:02:36.040 --> 01:02:37.269
new California law to crack that

01:02:37.270 --> 01:02:39.369
open. But the major threat right now

01:02:39.370 --> 01:02:41.199
is the threat from Europe,

01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:42.849
with, with, you know, something

01:02:42.850 --> 01:02:44.909
called the eU Digital

01:02:44.910 --> 01:02:46.829
Services Act, which was

01:02:46.830 --> 01:02:48.689
cooked up in tandem with folks

01:02:48.690 --> 01:02:50.789
like Newsguard, which is run by,

01:02:50.790 --> 01:02:52.199
you know, which has has a board of

01:02:52.200 --> 01:02:53.393
Michael Hayden, head of the CIA,

01:02:53.394 --> 01:02:54.759
NSA, four star general.

01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:57.059
Rick Stengel is on that board.

01:02:57.060 --> 01:02:57.899
You know, from from the State

01:02:57.900 --> 01:02:59.519
Department's propaganda office.

01:02:59.520 --> 01:03:01.499
Tom Ridge is on that board from

01:03:01.500 --> 01:03:03.239
the Department of Homeland Security.

01:03:03.240 --> 01:03:04.829
Oh, and Anders Fogh Rasmussen is on

01:03:04.830 --> 01:03:05.669
that board.

01:03:05.670 --> 01:03:07.559
He was the, the general secretary of

01:03:07.560 --> 01:03:09.209
NATO under the Obama administration.

01:03:09.210 --> 01:03:11.579
So you have NATO, the CIA, the NSA,

01:03:11.580 --> 01:03:12.929
four star general, DHS, and the

01:03:12.930 --> 01:03:15.179
State Department working with the

01:03:15.180 --> 01:03:17.429
EU to craft the censorship

01:03:17.430 --> 01:03:18.809
laws that now are the largest

01:03:18.810 --> 01:03:20.626
existential threat to X

01:03:20.627 --> 01:03:21.627
other than potential advertiser

01:03:22.290 --> 01:03:24.059
boycotts, because there is now

01:03:24.060 --> 01:03:26.039
disinformation is now banned as

01:03:26.040 --> 01:03:27.899
a matter of law in, in

01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:29.459
the EU. And the EU is a bigger

01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:30.959
market for X than the US.

01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:32.759
There's only 300 million some people

01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:34.259
in the U.S. there's 450 million in

01:03:34.260 --> 01:03:35.399
Europe.

01:03:35.400 --> 01:03:37.349
X is now forced to comply with this

01:03:37.350 --> 01:03:39.299
brand new law that just got ratified

01:03:39.300 --> 01:03:41.159
this year, where they

01:03:41.160 --> 01:03:42.989
either need to forfeit 6% of their

01:03:42.990 --> 01:03:45.029
global annual revenue to the EU

01:03:45.030 --> 01:03:46.979
to maintain operations there or

01:03:46.980 --> 01:03:48.989
put in place essentially the kind

01:03:48.990 --> 01:03:51.029
of, you know, CIA bumper

01:03:51.030 --> 01:03:53.189
cars, if you will, that I've

01:03:53.190 --> 01:03:54.569
been describing over the course of

01:03:54.570 --> 01:03:56.819
this, in order to have an internal

01:03:56.820 --> 01:03:58.949
mechanism to censor anything

01:03:58.950 --> 01:04:01.109
that the EU, which is just a proxy

01:04:01.110 --> 01:04:02.849
for NATO, deems to be

01:04:02.850 --> 01:04:03.689
disinformation.

01:04:03.690 --> 01:04:05.339
And you can bet with 65 elections

01:04:05.340 --> 01:04:07.829
around the globe this year,

01:04:07.830 --> 01:04:09.239
you can you can predict every single

01:04:09.240 --> 01:04:10.259
time what they're going to define

01:04:10.260 --> 01:04:11.219
disinformation as.

01:04:11.220 --> 01:04:12.629
So that's the main the main fight

01:04:12.630 --> 01:04:14.369
right now is, is dealing with the

01:04:14.370 --> 01:04:15.599
transatlantic flank attack from

01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:16.859
Europe.

01:04:16.860 --> 01:04:18.689
I said this five times, but that's

01:04:18.690 --> 01:04:19.799
just one of the most remarkable

01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:20.669
stories I've ever heard.

01:04:20.670 --> 01:04:22.439
And I'm grateful to you for bringing

01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.149
it to us. Mike Benz, Executive

01:04:24.150 --> 01:04:25.289
Director of the Foundation for

01:04:25.290 --> 01:04:26.939
Freedom Online.

01:04:26.940 --> 01:04:27.960
And I hope we see you again.

01:04:29.930 --> 01:04:30.930
Thanks, Tucker.